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Thread: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan' [W:479]

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    Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    Ukraine is composed of 40 odd million people, a chunk of which in the Far East are demonstrating what they want, and it isn't what your pushing.
    If that chunk want to join Russia, fine. Putin can send in planes to fly them to the Motherland. However, destroying Ukraine to join Russia is not a sane way of going about it.

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    Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

    Quote Originally Posted by austrianecon View Post
    Obama is a war criminal too if Putin is one. So is half of Nato.
    Obama and NATO hasn't done what Putin has done in Ukraine.

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    Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

    Quote Originally Posted by Roadvirus View Post
    NATO isn't forcing itself anywhere. If the government of Ukraine wishes to join NATO, that is their right. Putin can object to it, but he can not destroy Ukraine because of it.
    Ukraine has niether asked for nor been offered NATO membership. This paranoia is all Putins

    Ironically though if Ukraine does survive it will now be desperate to join after what has been done to it

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    Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

    Quote Originally Posted by flogger View Post
    I've posted a rebuttal to your opinion piece already



    No this is the opinion of one person. It has not been endorsed by others within this group. Here is another opinion and comprehensive rebuttal from someone at least as well qualified

    The Ukraine crisis according to John J. Mearsheimer: Impeccable Logic, Wrong Facts

    And another still

    Why John J. Mearsheimer is Wrong on Ukraine | Duck of Minerva
    Wrong again, it is endorsed by the CFR, and posted on their website. And all of your whining isn't going to change the results so don't be thinking you'll see a return of Crimea, they are largely happy thank you very much.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

    Quote Originally Posted by Roadvirus View Post
    Providing weapons to a proxy army that is destroying a nation isn't evil?
    Continuing to give arms to said proxy army after they shot down a civilian airliner which killed 300 people isn't evil?
    Threatening to launch World War 3 because the rest of the world wants to help Ukraine defend itself from Russian aggression isn't evil?

    What would constitute evil by Putin in your eyes?
    To the bolded, if that is evil, then the arms that the US has been providing to its proxies in Syria which have and are destroying that country are evil? See how that works. Though I suspect that like the rest of the patronising folk you'll argue that that's different. Because we all know that anytime the US does it, its different. Oh, and right too!
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

  6. #386
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    Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    Wrong again, it is endorsed by the CFR, and posted on their website. And all of your whining isn't going to change the results so don't be thinking you'll see a return of Crimea, they are largely happy thank you very much.
    The central assertion of your opinion piece was that NATO was seeking enlargement and expansion into Ukraine. At no time since Ukrainian independence has Ukraine either asked for nor been offerred membership nor was it likely to be on the horizon due to Article 5 of the NATO mandate. Nor (unlike Russia) has the West broken any treaty stipulation regarding Ukrainian borders sovereignty nor right to self determination of all Ukrainians

    If you had bothered reading the rebuttals (even those on your own link) would have made this clear
    Last edited by flogger; 02-11-15 at 06:13 PM.

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    Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

    Quote Originally Posted by Roadvirus View Post
    NATO isn't forcing itself anywhere. If the government of Ukraine wishes to join NATO, that is their right. Putin can object to it, but he can not destroy Ukraine because of it.
    Putin can do whatever the **** he wants and he won't be listening to your protestations. As to NATO, they have expanded a dozen times since the collapse of the old Soviet Union. Putin has been protesting it for years and I don't believe you'll be seeing any more of it. Furthermore, the elected president of Ukraine did choose and signed a deal with Russia, which is when the **** hit the fan in the US/EU. As has been pointed out in the story over at the CFR's website. You can find it in post #369
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

    Quote Originally Posted by flogger View Post
    The central assertion of your opinion piece was that NATO was seeking enlargement and expansion into Ukraine. At no time since Ukrainian independence has Ukraine either asked for nor been offerred membership nor was it likely to be on the horizon due to Article 5 of the NATO mandate. Nor (unlike Russia) has the West broken any treaty stipulation regarding Ukrainian borders sovereignty nor right to self determination of all Ukrainians

    If you had bothered reading the rebuttals (even those on your own link) would have made this clear
    I will overlook the fact that you apparently are unaware of the American Council on Foreign Relations and the weight and credibility as well as resume' that its members and associates carry. Continue to whin about this flogger as you will, but Putins got the upper hand on this and the momentum and you will not see Russia allowing any further expansion of NATO. Now if expanding NATO is that god damn important to you, then you'd best prepare yourselves for conflict you haven't seen in decades.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    As to NATO, they have expanded a dozen times since the collapse of the old Soviet Union.
    So why didn't they do so 20 years ago when it would have been so much easier for them ?

    the elected president of Ukraine did choose and signed a deal with Russia, which is when the **** hit the fan in the US/EU. As has been pointed out in the story over at the CFR's website. You can find it in post #369
    And who's assertions have been rebutted multiple times on post #376

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    Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    I will overlook the fact that you apparently are unaware of the American Council on Foreign Relations and the weight and credibility as well as resume' that its members and associates carry.
    Some of the authors I linked were just as qualified to comment

    Continue to whin about this flogger as you will, but Putins got the upper hand on this and the momentum and you will not see Russia allowing any further expansion of NATO.
    But NATO membership was never an issue here. It had never been asked for nor offered to Ukraine so that is a strawman argument

    Now if expanding NATO is that god damn important to you, then you'd best prepare yourselves for conflict you haven't seen in decades.
    I care about a smaller nation being attacked by a bigger one for daring to assert its free will in hoping for EU membership . Nothing more

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