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Thread: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan' [W:479]

  1. #371
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    Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    No, I don't believe I've ever said that. Putin rules the day because as the Council on Foreign Relations has pointed out (click the link in post 369) the crisis is the fault of the West.
    I've posted a rebuttal to your opinion piece already

    And you are in a state of denial on that. But like I said, your view is irrelevant, even Putin knows that the American CFR has acknowledged his superior position, and he's going forward with his plans, floggers protestations not withstanding!
    No this is the opinion of one person. It has not been endorsed by others within this group. Here is another opinion and comprehensive rebuttal from someone at least as well qualified

    http://www.europeanleadershipnetwork...acts_2079.html

    And another still

    http://duckofminerva.com/2014/09/why...n-ukraine.html
    Last edited by flogger; 02-11-15 at 03:51 PM.

  2. #372
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    Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

    Quote Originally Posted by flogger View Post
    The reality that it is going to have its hard won sovereignty trampled into the ground and be oppressed by it larger neighbour again you mean ?
    This is not the first time that some Country has acted in a really stupid way and paid a huge price for being so stupid.

    Welcome to the real world.

    Russia would have been stupid to let it happen, and Russia is not stupid.

    Quote Originally Posted by flogger View Post
    Please show evidence that Ukraine has ever done so or that the US had ever asked it to ...... again ?

    Just because you are determined to believe something doesn't automatically make it so
    The proof is given by several people all through this thread, and you are just denying the truth in front of your own face.

    There is no sense to keep throwing food to a dog which refuses to stop barking.
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  3. #373
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    Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

    Quote Originally Posted by JP Cusick View Post
    Russia would have been stupid to let it happen, and Russia is not stupid.
    Stupid enough to let what happen exactly ? Is it true that the West has been determined to incorporate Ukraine into NATO? Has Ukraine wanted to join the alliance? The answer to both questions, is a resounding no. Neither NATO nor any major NATO country has ever stated that Ukraine should be incorporated immediately into the alliance. And for good reason they understood that no NATO member state would invoke Article 5 and rush to Ukraine’s assistance in case of an attack by Russia.

    The proof is given by several people all through this thread, and you are just denying the truth in front of your own face.
    Who ? Please cite that proof ? I DARE YOU

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    Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

    Quote Originally Posted by flogger View Post
    Who ? Please cite that proof ? I DARE YOU
    I wish that you would grow up because this is not a discussion between adults when you fail to rise to the occasion.

    See the proof here = Montecresto' posting # 369 page 37 =

    Anyone reading this thread can see it - while you pretend that it is not in your face and eyes.

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  5. #375
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    Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

    Quote Originally Posted by JP Cusick View Post
    I wish that you would grow up because this is not a discussion between adults when you fail to rise to the occasion.

    See the proof here = Montecresto' posting # 369 page 37 =

    Anyone reading this thread can see it - while you pretend that it is not in your face and eyes.

    This flawed opinion piece was comprehensively rebutted no less than three times since which (unsurprisingly) you chose not to read

    Here you go

    The Ukraine crisis according to John J. Mearsheimer: Impeccable Logic, Wrong Facts

    Department of "Huh?!" John J. Mearsheimer Thinks the West Caused the Ukraine Crisis?: The Honest Broker for the Week of September 19, 2014 - Washington Center for Equitable Growth

    Why John J. Mearsheimer is Wrong on Ukraine | Duck of Minerva

    Just for good measure here is a fourth

    RealTime Economic Issues Watch | Is the West to Blame for Russia’s Aggression in Ukraine? Of Course Not!

    You will find more at the foot of the very same Meirsheimer article Montecristo posted too

    So why is this opinion proof of anything ?
    Last edited by flogger; 02-11-15 at 04:45 PM.

  6. #376
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    Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

    Perhaps a reminder of Russias transgressions here might be in order. Putin in his military aggression has violated the UN Charter, the Helsinki Act of 1975, the Treaty on the Dissolution of the Soviet Union of 1991, the Budapest Memorandum of 1994, the Russian-Ukrainian Friendship Treaty of 1997, or the Russian-Ukrainian Sevastopol Base Treaty of 1997, and so on.

    Where is the commensurate Western or Ukrainian trangression.... of any kind

  7. #377
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    Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

    Quote Originally Posted by flogger View Post
    This flawed opinion piece was comprehensively rebutted no less than three times since which (unsurprisingly) you chose not to read

    So why is this opinion proof of anything ?
    The truth is not really a matter of opinion.

    And denials of the truth does not change it from being true.

    Clearly we live in the USA (or in the West) so the popular propaganda is being dumped onto us from many directions, and we are trying to separate the lies from the reality, and as such you have been rightfully informed and your denial is just fooling your self.

    So you asked for proof = "I DARE YOU" - so you have the proof and you are just denying your own face and eyes.
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  8. #378
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    Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

    Quote Originally Posted by JP Cusick View Post
    The truth is not really a matter of opinion.
    Correct

    And denials of the truth does not change it from being true.
    Niether does your wishful thinking make it so

    Clearly we live in the USA (or in the West) so the popular propaganda is being dumped onto us from many directions, and we are trying to separate the lies from the reality, and as such you have been rightfully informed and your denial is just fooling your self.
    I cannot think of a single verifiable fact that you have presented all the way through this thread. You are simply here to beat up on the West and more specifically the US

    So you asked for proof = "I DARE YOU" - so you have the proof and you are just denying your own face and eyes
    And the opinion piece (which is I presume the straw you are so desperately clutching at) was comprehensively rebutted no less than four times

    In case you missed them here are some undeniable facts ... again

    'Putin in his military aggression has violated the UN Charter, the Helsinki Act of 1975, the Treaty on the Dissolution of the Soviet Union of 1991, the Budapest Memorandum of 1994, the Russian-Ukrainian Friendship Treaty of 1997, or the Russian-Ukrainian Sevastopol Base Treaty of 1997'

    Now cite me the Wests culpability ?
    Last edited by flogger; 02-11-15 at 05:23 PM.

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    Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    All I was shown was an opinion. On this issue (Ukraine) Putin isn't the evil you're painting.
    Providing weapons to a proxy army that is destroying a nation isn't evil?
    Continuing to give arms to said proxy army after they shot down a civilian airliner which killed 300 people isn't evil?
    Threatening to launch World War 3 because the rest of the world wants to help Ukraine defend itself from Russian aggression isn't evil?

    What would constitute evil by Putin in your eyes?

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    Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    On the issue of Ukraine, Putin is right and you will see the same reaction to any attempted expansion of NATO influence eastward.
    NATO isn't forcing itself anywhere. If the government of Ukraine wishes to join NATO, that is their right. Putin can object to it, but he can not destroy Ukraine because of it.

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