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Thread: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan' [W:479]

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    Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

    Quote Originally Posted by Simpleχity View Post
    The 2014 Crimean snap-referendum violated the constitution of Ukraine. It was not monitored by international organizations and occurred under direct Russian military occupation. Moreover, both ballot choices resulted in the same outcome.

    The illegal rebel referendum in eastern Ukraine also violated the Ukraine constitution, and was similarly conducted under Russian military/political occupation and without international monitors.
    In that sense the independence of most modern states (including the US) is "illegal". This is a fairly pointless argument. Facts are more important than all sorts of legal fictions. It is certainly a fact that Russia used military force to get Crimea and Sevastopol to secede from Ukraine. It is just as much a fact that this enjoyed the support of the overwhelming majority of the population of Crimea and Sevastopol.

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    Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fleming View Post
    In that sense the independence of most modern states (including the US) is "illegal". This is a fairly pointless argument. Facts are more important than all sorts of legal fictions. It is certainly a fact that Russia used military force to get Crimea and Sevastopol to secede from Ukraine. It is just as much a fact that this enjoyed the support of the overwhelming majority of the population of Crimea and Sevastopol.
    The latter half of your statement is far from correct, the "referendums" were held under armed camps ruled by terror and murder and if you believe that 97% of the Crimea which only has a 33% ethnic Russian population voted for a Russian annexation then I have a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you. As it stands the annexation of the Crimea is an illegitimate war crime internationally recognized as such.

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    Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

    Quote Originally Posted by face, your View Post
    %

    The latter half of your statement is far from correct, the "referendums" were held under armed camps ruled by terror and murder and if you believe that 97% of the Crimea which only has a 33% ethnic Russian population voted for a Russian annexation then I have a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you. As it stands the annexation of the Crimea is an illegitimate war crime internationally recognized as such.
    Maybe you should read what I wrote. I didn't use any percentages. But if you can't accept facts then that is your problem, not mine. For the rest I see you belong to those who seek to devalue the term "war crime" to a completely meaningless insult.

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    Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    Because he hasn't done anything wrong, in this situation. You are either in denial of US interference, or ignorant of it, I'm not sure which yet.
    That's just Putin worship talking.
    Putin tried to buy Ukraine through a corrupt politician. When his own party ousted him he turned to military force.
    That is wrong by any definition of the word.
    Pretending the US did anything close to what Putin has done can only be wilful ignorance out outright lying.
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    Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

    Quote Originally Posted by Fleming View Post
    It is certainly a fact that Russia used military force to get Crimea and Sevastopol to secede from Ukraine.
    An undeniable fact.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fleming View Post
    It is just as much a fact that this enjoyed the support of the overwhelming majority of the population of Crimea and Sevastopol.
    It enjoyed the support of the "ethnic Russians" in Crimea. Not the ethnic Ukrainians living there nor the indigenous Tarters. Besides that, the constitutions of both Ukraine and Crimea stipulated that any change in Crimea's status must be approved by *all* of the Ukrainian people, not just the citizens living on the peninsula. How can it be that >1% of Ukraine's population of 46 million has the final say on what happens to land that belongs to all the Ukrainian people?


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    Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

    Quote Originally Posted by Quag View Post
    That's just Putin worship talking.
    Putin tried to buy Ukraine through a corrupt politician. When his own party ousted him he turned to military force.
    That is wrong by any definition of the word.
    Pretending the US did anything close to what Putin has done can only be wilful ignorance out outright lying.
    Both countries had been courting Ukraine for years, in the end Ukraine decided that there'd get a better deal with Russia then they would with the US/West. It's only then that Western intrigue kicked in full speed. Putin is responding, and not the aggressor.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    Both countries had been courting Ukraine for years, in the end Ukraine decided that there'd get a better deal with Russia then they would with the US/West. It's only then that Western intrigue kicked in full speed. Putin is responding, and not the aggressor.
    Yeah, it had nothing to do with Russian cronies in those position that was why they chose the deal. And all those people in the streets were just American plants. Guess they all got flown in from Alabama right?

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    Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    Because he hasn't done anything wrong, in this situation. You are either in denial of US interference, or ignorant of it, I'm not sure which yet.
    Please provide your evidence that it was the US stuffing their pockets with dollars that motivated the unarmed protesters to face up to Yanukovych's guns

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    Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    Hawaii, for starters.
    He said the last 100 years. Hawaii was in 1898

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    Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

    Quote Originally Posted by face, your View Post
    %

    The latter half of your statement is far from correct, the "referendums" were held under armed camps ruled by terror and murder and if you believe that 97% of the Crimea which only has a 33% ethnic Russian population voted for a Russian annexation then I have a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you. As it stands the annexation of the Crimea is an illegitimate war crime internationally recognized as such.
    You are incorrect, in fact 58% of Crimeans are ethnic Russians. In that respect it is the only Ukrainian oblast with a distinct Russian majority unlike with the currently contested Donetsk and Luhansk which have just 38%

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