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Thread: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan' [W:479]

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    Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

    Quote Originally Posted by bardak View Post
    Hypothetically... If you knew exactly what 90% of people in the Crimea in favor of annexation to Russia, then you would have approved it?
    I have lived in Krym (Crimea). And yes, I agree that the ethnic-Russian majority in Crimea would favor a return to Russia. The problems are... this was not accomplished legally and transpired under Russian military occupation. For this to have been a legal secession, the majority of *all Ukrainians* would have had to vote positively on Crimean independence. Maybe they would have, probably they wouldn't have, but we shall never know because Russian aggression did not allow Ukrainians and Crimeans to abide by their respective constitutions.

    Although Putin obtained the results he wanted (permanent control of the Russian Black Sea Fleet naval facilities at Sevastopol), he badly mishandled this and miscalculated the negative international response. His subsequent foray into eastern Ukraine has served to further exacerbate an already bad situation.

    Rightly so, most of the world views Russian aggression in Crimea and eastern Ukraine as blatant violations of international law and an onslaught against border integrity and national sovereignty.


    Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet. -- Marine Corps General James 'Chaos' Mattis

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    Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

    Quote Originally Posted by Simpleχity View Post
    I have lived in Krym (Crimea). And yes, I agree that the ethnic-Russian majority in Crimea would favor a return to Russia. The problems are... this was not accomplished legally and transpired under Russian military occupation. For this to have been a legal secession, the majority of *all Ukrainians* would have had to vote positively on Crimean independence. Maybe they would have, probably they wouldn't have, but we shall never know because Russian aggression did not allow Ukrainians and Crimeans to abide by their respective constitutions.

    Although Putin obtained the results he wanted (permanent control of the Russian Black Sea Fleet naval facilities at Sevastopol), he badly mishandled this and miscalculated the negative international response. His subsequent foray into eastern Ukraine has served to further exacerbate an already bad situation.

    Rightly so, most of the world views Russian aggression in Crimea and eastern Ukraine as blatant violations of international law and an onslaught against border integrity and national sovereignty.
    I also lived in the Crimea. Also lived in Zaporozhye and Kiev. Most Ukrainians against the loss of the Crimea, but the inhabitants of Crimea joining Russia support. If not this referendum, the blood would be more than the Donbass.

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    Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

    Quote Originally Posted by bardak View Post
    The threat of force to whom? Crimea for more than twenty years dreamed of returning to Russia - this is the idea of a whole generation, not a momentary desire. Well to tell you that, you clearly were not there, just argue in this way... If Crimea is not returned, the Donbass Ukrainian authorities would seem a cakewalk.
    The referendum occurred AFTER Russia had invaded and basically annexed Crimea. There is no chance of a fair vote when it is brought about by the use of force using a rigged question.


    Summer in Siberia has arranged a meeting for the separation of Siberia. The most numerous rally was in Novosibirsk - with posters stood 4 people, of which only two were from Siberia. Locals and dispersed them, the police did not give cripple.
    So instead of answering you reply with a pathetic joke. I will assume that you would never agree to any Russian territory leaving and are just hypocritical in your beliefs due to your support of an evil dictator.
    A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject.
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    Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

    Quote Originally Posted by bardak View Post
    If not this referendum, the blood would be more than the Donbass.
    There would have been no insurrection in Crimea without Russian intelligence and special-ops forces laying the groundwork prior to the overt military invasion.


    Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet. -- Marine Corps General James 'Chaos' Mattis

    Repeal and Replace Trump.

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    Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

    Quote Originally Posted by Simpleχity View Post
    There would have been no insurrection in Crimea without Russian intelligence and special-ops forces laying the groundwork prior to the overt military invasion.
    For obvious reasons, Russia wanted to hold Crimea. It wanted to keep NATO out of its soft underbelly. What's wrong with that?

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    Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

    Quote Originally Posted by Simpleχity View Post
    Global Research is a known conspiracy website. Try again.
    Try again what?

    General Viktor Muzhenko is the Chief of Staff of Ukraine’s Armed Forces. He said the “Ukrainian army is not fighting with the regular units of the Russian army”.

    Globalresearch simply transferred his direct speech.

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    Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

    Quote Originally Posted by Quag View Post
    Yes it is as others have shown.

    Nah maybe they will up to 99%
    What a moronic question.
    As long as the evil Putin armed thugs are in control no referendum will be fair or have any outcome other than what Putin decides.
    There was a nice article in The Guardian.
    British army creates team of Facebook warriors
    The British army is creating a special force of Facebook warriors, skilled in psychological operations and use of social media to engage in unconventional warfare in the information age.
    The 77th will include regulars and reservists and recruitment will begin in the spring. Soldiers with journalism skills and familiarity with social media are among those being sought.

    The move is partly a result of experience in counter-insurgency operations in Afghanistan. It can also be seen as a response to events of the last year that include Russia’s actions in Ukraine, in particular Crimea, and Islamic State’s (Isis) takeover of large swaths of Syria and Iraq.

    Nato has so far been unable to find a counter to what the US and UK claim is Russia creating unrest by sending in regular troops disguised as local militia, allowing president Vladimir Putin to deny responsibility.Isis has proved adept at exploiting social media to attract fighters from around the world.

    British army creates team of Facebook warriors | UK news | The Guardian
    It's nice because it clearly shows complete ignorance and arrogance of the west over Crimea, over Ukraine and Russia. These people cannot undestand the obvious fact - that Russia didn't need to conduct psychological operations, or propaganda actions to win the hearts and minds of Crimeans. Because Crimeans are normal Russian people and Crimea was always part of Russia that accidentally appeared abroad.

    Russians love Russia simply because it's Russia, not because of Putin's propaganda.

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    Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

    Quote Originally Posted by Quag View Post
    If it was legal under Ukrainian law, yes.

    If 99% of the people wanted in Kamchatka, or Siberia to leave Russia would you approve it? Would Putin allow it?
    We all know the Putin's answer would be to kill, imprison and/or utterly destroy in any means he could think of anyone who tried to do so.
    It however was not done legally or in free manner and was done with a loaded question under the threat of force.
    Your point is moot and will forever remain so.
    When Ukrainians left Soviet Union (that was another name of Russia, factually), nobody started to kill them.

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    Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

    Quote Originally Posted by Quag View Post
    So instead of answering you reply with a pathetic joke. I will assume that you would never agree to any Russian territory leaving and are just hypocritical in your beliefs due to your support of an evil dictator.
    Yes, yes, yes, we are poor and do not understand anything. Only one western world carries peace and democracy, and we are the evil Russian. Vodka, balalaika, bear...

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    Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

    Quote Originally Posted by Simpleχity View Post
    There would have been no insurrection in Crimea without Russian intelligence and special-ops forces laying the groundwork prior to the overt military invasion.
    The Truth? All would live happily ever after with Ukrainian Nazis? I must say the inhabitants of Crimea about it. And then they, too, would like to volunteer battalions with the Nazis bombed the Donbass, and their cunning lured Putin in Russia.

    You lived in the Crimea, as you say. Do not really understand the sentiments of the local population?

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