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Thread: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan' [W:479]

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    Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

    Quote Originally Posted by MrFirst View Post
    When 98% vote "yes" in general that means "everyone".
    Saddam Hussein got 100% of the vote too. What's your point?

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    Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

    Quote Originally Posted by MrFirst View Post
    The 2014 snap coup d'etat didn't violate constitution of Ukraine? Funny how people who demolished the whole idea of law and order in Ukraine start to refer to constitution.
    Yanukovych was a corrupt thug and the people of Ukraine wanted him gone.


    I believe only those ones who took part at observers' mission over the referendum have a right to say their opinion about it. And all international observers who visited Crimea for referendum confirmed it was free and fair.
    The entire EU, US and Canada called the "referendum" a joke. Even the OSCE (Organization for Security and Co-operation in Europe) declared it unconstitutional and never sent observers.

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    Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

    Quote Originally Posted by Quag View Post
    Yeah an open and fair referendum with rigged questions and done under the "protective" guns of Putin's thugs.
    Not forgetting of course there have now been two internationally monitored elections in Ukraine since the overthrow of the Yanukovych regime

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    Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

    Quote Originally Posted by MrFirst View Post
    I believe only those ones who took part at observers' mission over the referendum have a right to say their opinion about it. And all international observers who visited Crimea for referendum confirmed it was free and fair.
    According to article 73 of the 1996 Constitution of Ukraine[82] and article 3 of the 2012 Ukrainian law "On all-Ukrainian referendum", territorial changes can only be approved via a referendum where all the citizens of Ukraine are allowed to vote, including those that do not reside in Crimea.[83] The Central Election Commission of Ukraine also stated that there are no judicial possibilities, according to the legislation of Ukraine, to initiate such changes.[84] The Venice Commission declared that the referendum was illegal under both Ukrainian and Crimean Constitutions, and violated international standards and norms.[85]

    On March 11, the OSCE chair, Switzerland's Foreign Minister Didier Burkhalter, declared the referendum as unconstitutional and therefore the OSCE would not send observers.[96]

    Russian state-owned media and referendum organizers claimed that from nearly 70 to 135 international observers monitored the referendum without reporting any violations, but objectivity of these has been questioned, because many of them had ties to far-right groups.[105] [106] [107]

    The Ukrayinska Pravda reported that Russia formally asked all Russian-speaking European Union citizens and expats to become observers in Crimea while travel, accommodation and all expenses will be covered.[111]

    According to Yale historian Timothy Snyder, the Russian government invited people from among European far-right parties to serve as observers.[112] At least some of the international observers were managed and financed by the Eurasian Observatory for Democracy & Elections (EODE)[99] [113] a far-right Russia-based self-proclaimed election monitoring organization.[114]
    Wikipedia - Crimean Status Referendum 2014

    An illegal and sham referendum with no internationally recognized electoral monitors.


    Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet. -- Marine Corps General James 'Chaos' Mattis

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    Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

    Quote Originally Posted by Simpleχity View Post
    Wikipedia - Crimean Status Referendum 2014

    An illegal and sham referendum with no internationally recognized electoral monitors.
    Remind ... international observers were not allowed or they do not come?

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    Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

    Quote Originally Posted by bardak View Post
    Remind ... international observers were not allowed or they do not come?
    Virtually all legitimate international election-monitor organizations viewed the Crimea referendum as illegal under the constitutions of both Ukraine and Crimea.

    Their participation would have provided a facade of legitimacy to both the illegal snap-referendum and the Russian occupation.


    Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet. -- Marine Corps General James 'Chaos' Mattis

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    Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

    Quote Originally Posted by Roadvirus View Post
    Yanukovych was a corrupt thug and the people of Ukraine wanted him gone.
    Don't hide your own hypocrisy, your own misunderstanding or your own political preferences behind people. People wanted! What else people wanted? Maybe people wanted civil war? Maybe people wanted economic collapse? Maybe people wanted conscription and total mobilization? People always want something - and the same in Ukraine - but who's got an advantage from the revolution? Absolutely real politicians - Poroshenko, Turchinov, Yatsenyuk and others - but not some abstract "people".

    Quote Originally Posted by Roadvirus View Post
    The entire EU, US and Canada called the "referendum" a joke. Even the OSCE (Organization for Security and Co-operation in Europe) declared it unconstitutional and never sent observers.
    Really? Maybe EU, US and Canada are sent to Earth by God to call what is real referendum and what is not???
    And Canada too? Oh, probaby that changes everything, from your point of view?

    About Crimea you (along with EU, US and - CANADA!!!) call referendum a joke, even though these countries refused to send observers but in advance declared it illegal, unfair, under barrels of guns and so on, and so on. So, they didn't watch but they know it was bad.

    In Ukraine the legitimate president, legally elected in legal elections, who wasn't released from the power by any legal way, was expelled, the power was siezed through violence and blood, and all what you have to say about it - people wanted.

    But in Crimea there are people too. And they wanted too. So, why in the one case "people wanted" is enough for you, and in another case you don't recognize people's right to want? Hypocrisy, pure hypocrisy.
    Last edited by MrFirst; 02-01-15 at 04:21 PM.

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    Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

    Quote Originally Posted by Quag View Post
    That is an outright lie.
    No, that's not.

    Quote Originally Posted by Quag View Post
    Yup he protected the results he wanted.
    Nothing unfair about voting in a referendum with a rigged question and having the guys who want a certain outcome standing there with guns.
    Do you want to say if today the referendum was held in Crimea, there would any other results?

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    Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

    Quote Originally Posted by Roadvirus View Post
    Saddam Hussein got 100% of the vote too. What's your point?
    My point is that the referendum absolutely reflects the opinion of people. The referendum was organized by local authorities - election committees, government offices, local parliaments - by all authority bodies of Crimea which, by the way, existed and functioned all the time when there was Ukraine's sovereignty over the peninsula and later when Crimea first declared independence and joined to Russia. These authoruty bodies weren't destroyed or dismissed by anybody, and Saddam Hussein has nothing to do with Crimea and its referendum.

    I have no idea why you noticed Saddam. What's your point?

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    Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

    Obama openly admits 'brokering power transition' in Ukraine

    In an interview with CNN’s Fareed Zakaria, Barack Obama acknowledged that the United States had "brokered a deal to transition power in Ukraine," thus admitting to the highest level of democratic impropriety imaginable.

    http://rt.com/op-edge/228379-obama-p...ition-ukraine/

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