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Thread: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan' [W:479]

  1. #101
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    Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

    Quote Originally Posted by MrFirst View Post
    And I know what they told you about Yanukovich.
    They told you, confidentially: Look, flogger, this is pure mob... The mob rules our country...
    And so on in the same style.
    Well as a Russian you must be well aquainted with how that works

  2. #102
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    Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

    Quote Originally Posted by Simpleχity View Post
    Wrong as usual. The Ukraine government welcomes any and all US and EU assistance against blatant Russian aggression. Per Ukraine's declared desire to turn Westward, Western countries have every reason to be there and help Ukraine become a contributing member of the Western community of nations.
    Thats the point that nobody will address here in their ongoing demonization of the West. What if its what the Ukrainians actually want ? Why shackle themselves to the the economic corpse that is Russia when they could become part of the largest trading bloc on Earth instead ? Its a no brainer

  3. #103
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    Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

    Quote Originally Posted by flogger View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by flogger View Post
    For the umpteenth time. What if Ukraine wants to be part of Western institutions of its own free will.? Its getting tiresome repeating myself here
    Thats the point that nobody will address here in their ongoing demonization of the West. What if its what the Ukrainians actually want ? Why shackle themselves to the the economic corpse that is Russia when they could become part of the largest trading bloc on Earth instead ? Its a no brainer
    I really did answer you directly and in detail in my posting # 78 linked here =

    And to QUOTE: "But for a direct answer then "no" the Ukraine has no free will to be hostile with its huge neighbor Russia, and the Ukraine has no free will to align itself to the hostile warmonger nation of the USA against Russia."

    You demonstrate a huge part of the problem in that Americans refuse to see the truth even when it is given directly in front of your eyes.
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  4. #104
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    Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

    Quote Originally Posted by JP Cusick View Post
    I really did answer you directly and in detail in my posting # 78 linked here =
    No you most certainly did not. You in fact you went out of your way to avoid doing so !

    And to QUOTE: "[B]But for a direct answer then "no" the Ukraine has no free will to be hostile with its huge neighbor Russia
    That is NOT the question you were asked ?

    , and the Ukraine has no free will to align itself to the hostile warmonger nation of the USA against Russia
    And niether was that.

    I'll make it as simple as I possibly can. Does the Ukraine have any right to self determination ? Stop attempting to distort the question in order to avoid answering it and just answer it ?

    You demonstrate a huge part of the problem in that Americans refuse to see the truth even when it is given directly in front of your eyes
    For the third time now I'M NOT AMERICAN !!!
    Last edited by flogger; 01-28-15 at 12:45 PM.

  5. #105
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    Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

    Quote Originally Posted by flogger View Post
    I'll make it as simple as I possibly can. Does the Ukraine have any right to self determination ? Stop attempting to distort the question in order to avoid answering it and just answer it ?
    Well if we take that very literally as you keep presenting it then "self determination" means only their "SELF" and so where it is affecting others like affecting the USA and affecting Russia then that is NOT just their "self" nor is it their "self determination" because they are affecting other Nations.

    So literally yes they do have a limited right to their own self determination so long as it only affects their self.

    It is limited because the International Community has certain precedence as like any Country committing crimes against humanity within their own borders is not acceptable, so any self determination can not be such that is viewed as a crime, and any self determination can not be such that negatively affects its neighbors as that is not SELF.

    Quote Originally Posted by flogger View Post
    For the third time now I'M NOT AMERICAN !!!
    Since you hide your identity and your location and hide other details then that means you are nobody and nowhere.

    That is what it means to be anonymous.

    My reference to Americans refusing to see the truth is still true and accurate, and it obviously still applies to you wherever you might claim or deny to be located.

    You are still being blind to what is said in front of your face and eyes even if you are hiding away on some other planet.
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  6. #106
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    Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

    Quote Originally Posted by JP Cusick View Post
    Well if we take that very literally as you keep presenting it then "self determination" means only their "SELF"
    Thats right . That means a political posture decided by Ukrainians for Ukrainians

    and so where it is affecting others like affecting the USA and affecting Russia then that is NOT just their "self" nor is it their "self determination" because they are affecting other Nations.
    This is of course nonsense. By that measure then does China therefore have the right to determine Russia's alignments and political posture given it is around 8 times its population and shares an even longer border with it than Ukraine does ?

    So literally yes they do have a limited right to their own self determination so long as it only affects their self.
    So such a nation has no right to determine its own alliances if it conflicts with the wishes of a larger neighbour ?

    It is limited because the International Community has certain precedence as like any Country committing crimes against humanity within their own borders is not acceptable, so any self determination can not be such that is viewed as a crime, and any self determination can not be such that negatively affects its neighbors as that is not SELF.
    Just as well then that this is not applicable in Ukraines case given it is not in breach of treaties it has signed with Russia nor has any of its combatants on Russian territory

    Since you hide your identity and your location and hide other details then that means you are nobody and nowhere.
    I'm Scottish which I already mentioned in my response to you on post # 19

    My reference to Americans refusing to see the truth is still true and accurate, and it obviously still applies to you wherever you might claim or deny to be located.
    I couldn't care less what you choose to believe about Americans frankly. There are an estimated 5000+ people that would still be alive were it not for the Russians (and not Americans) 'vacationing' in Ukraine today

    You are still being blind to what is said in front of your face and eyes even if you are hiding away on some other planet.
    No I'm just not the the sort of myopic bigot you'd like me to be
    Last edited by flogger; 01-28-15 at 01:53 PM.

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    Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

    Quote Originally Posted by JP Cusick View Post
    As such the USA is the unwelcome intruder who has no business in that area.
    The US didn't waltz into Crimea and say "It's ours".

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    Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

    Quote Originally Posted by Roadvirus View Post
    The US didn't waltz into Crimea and say "It's ours".
    If they did, that would be strange. Because it's not theirs at any sense.

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    Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

    Quote Originally Posted by Roadvirus View Post
    The US didn't waltz into Crimea and say "It's ours".
    Is that what you think Russia did?

  10. #110
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    Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

    Quote Originally Posted by flogger View Post
    So such a nation has no right to determine its own alliances if it conflicts with the wishes of a larger neighbour ?
    Yes - and welcome to the real would.

    See a related limitation of National RIGHTS = "The Monroe Doctrine was a US foreign policy regarding Latin American countries in 1823. It stated that further efforts by European nations to colonize land or interfere with states in North or South America would be viewed as acts of aggression, requiring U.S. intervention."
    Link = Monroe Doctrine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    So in the real world there is no self determination or alliances which are hostile to their neighboring Countries because such a hostility or alliance is an act of war.

    The USA tricked the Ukraine into a really stupid alliance of hostility against Russia, and I say the reason the USA is now so upset is because we screwed the Ukraine by our ignorant policy.


    ==============================================


    Quote Originally Posted by Roadvirus View Post
    The US didn't waltz into Crimea and say "It's ours".
    That is so excessively naive and childish that it is amazing to me.

    It was Russia who annexed the Crimea because the Crimea rightly belonged to Russia.

    The USA has tried to waltz into the Ukraine and made a mess out of it because the USA is an outsider and it was none of our business.
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