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Thread: Dutch court blocks extradition to U.S. over torture concerns.....

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    Re: Dutch court blocks extradition to U.S. over torture concerns.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    I'd be more inclined to trust Americans and their morals rather than anyone resembling a terrorist.
    Most of my friends who I've asked about torture support it. Many of those friends are Christian. The morals of the average American are not quite as golden as you might believe.

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    Re: Dutch court blocks extradition to U.S. over torture concerns.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    If nothing else we can have our spec ops suicide him where he is. No problem.
    Drone strikes-r-us. Pakistan, Netherlands, wherever terrorists are getting refuge. They're versatile.
    You can't reason anyone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into in the first place.

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    Re: Dutch court blocks extradition to U.S. over torture concerns.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Henry David View Post
    Most of my friends who I've asked about torture support it. Many of those friends are Christian. The morals of the average American are not quite as golden as you might believe.
    So the average American is similar to a terrorist?

    How did you phrase that question to your friends? And how many of them were Christian?

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    Re: Dutch court blocks extradition to U.S. over torture concerns.....

    Quote Originally Posted by MMC View Post
    A Dutch court on Tuesday blocked the extradition of a man accused of having fought against U.S. troops in Afghanistan, saying it could not be ruled out that the CIA had been involved in his torture after his arrest in Pakistan. Dutch court documents showed the suspect, a Dutch-Pakistani dual citizen named Sabir Khan, was tortured after his arrest by Pakistan's ISI security service. He faces charges in New York of conspiracy to commit murder and of supporting al Qaeda.

    The court said the Netherlands could not transfer him because Dutch and international law prohibits the extradition of torture victims to countries that played a role in abuse. "This letter does not rule out the possible involvement of the CIA," the court in The Hague said in a statement. "Since it cannot be ruled out that it was the CIA which requested the arrest, the judge again forbids" his extradition.....snip~

    Dutch court blocks extradition to U.S. over torture concerns




    Well now.....what do you think of that. They will not extradite a supporter of AQ, and we are not talking about Cheerleading supporter. Fruits of Feinstein's releasing of the Torture Report.....huh? What say ye?
    Lots of countries won't extradite someone who's in jeopardy of a death penalty sentence, either. Just the way it is.
    "I did not mean that Conservatives are generally stupid people. I meant that stupid people are generally Conservatives."
    -John Stuart Mill-

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    Re: Dutch court blocks extradition to U.S. over torture concerns.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Grand Mal View Post
    Lots of countries won't extradite someone who's in jeopardy of a death penalty sentence, either. Just the way it is.
    Perhaps Holland would like to become the new Gitmo.

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    Re: Dutch court blocks extradition to U.S. over torture concerns.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Perhaps Holland would like to become the new Gitmo.
    For a price, they might. A couple years ago they were looking at closing a prison- instead they take prisoners from Belgium on a contract basis.
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    Re: Dutch court blocks extradition to U.S. over torture concerns.....

    Quote Originally Posted by polgara View Post
    So it begins with the Dutch.... :
    It is too simple to state that. The Dutch government cannot extradite him at this moment in time. This is because this was a ruling in a "kort geding" (preliminary relief proceedings) which is a preliminary court case which normally is followed by a more extensive court case about the extradition question.

    The court, in a previous court case ordered the Dutch government to investigate the circumstances of the original arrest which lead to the torture of Khan.

    This court case has been going on for years, it went all the way to our version of the Supreme Court. And as said it all boils down to the international treaty (of which the Netherlands is a participant) that forbids governments from extraditing suspects if it can be suspected that the country who asks for the extradition was involved in the torture of the suspect.

    All in all a very difficult case. At first the court ruled in favor of the government but on appeal the court decided that, in part due to the known involvement of the CIA with the ISI, there are too many unanswered/un-investigated questions left for them to decide to approve the extradition. As said, this is in no means final. Extradition is still a possibility.

    This is part of the court ruling (translated):

    The circumstances mentioned in the letter from October 15 2014, that the Pakistani government had their own reasons to arrest the plaintiff, does not give the court reason to change it's opinion. The only thing that is different from the previous court proceeding is that this letter states that the plaintiff was also suspected of crimes on Pakistani soil, but this does not change the fact that the Pakistani government did not want to proceed with criminal proceedings against the plaintiff and instead extradited him to the Netherlands. This letter does not change the previous ruling from the court that this could indicate that it was the US all along, and not Pakistan, who asked/had grounds for his arrest in the first place. The court also notes that it has not been given a sufficient explanation as to why, within three days of his arrest, the US asked for extradition of the plaintiff and that the US petitioned the Netherlands for extradition of the plaintiff three months before the suspect was even transferred to the Netherlands. The fact that his extradition was asked so quickly after his Pakistani arrest and the fact that his extradition request precedes his actual transfer to the Netherlands by three months, has not convinced the court that the Dutch government has done a sufficient investigation, as mandated by this court, into the circumstances of the plaintiffs arrest in Pakistan.


    3.7.

    Concluding, based on the previous (all of the previous, not just the part I have just translated for you) is that the court is of the opinion, that the uncertainty as to whether or not there was a possible involvement of the US in the torture of the plaintiff still remains. This means that the extradition of the plaintiff to the US is still deemed unlawful. Now that the Government, at the hearing has indicated that it does not think that the question whether or not the CIA was involved has any relevance and that the state has not offered to ask further questions about this to the US government, and there has been no indication or evidence that the US government by their own volition has offered further information regarding the arrest, means that this court sees no reason to give the State the opportunity to further investigate this before the court gives it's ruling. The primarily requested ban on extradition, made by the plaintiff is here by awarded.
    Former military man (and now babysitter of Donald Trump) John Kelly, is a big loud lying empty barrel!

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    Re: Dutch court blocks extradition to U.S. over torture concerns.....

    Quote Originally Posted by joG View Post
    Feinstein did us no good. But not explaining, what we were doing and why it was legal and had to be done was at least as bad.
    It was not Feinstein only, the connection between the CIA and the ISI was also documented by NGO's like Amnesty. And I would think most secret services know about the connection between the CIA and ISI too.
    Former military man (and now babysitter of Donald Trump) John Kelly, is a big loud lying empty barrel!

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    Re: Dutch court blocks extradition to U.S. over torture concerns.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    This example of Dutch courage will lead to their own downfall moreso than it will effect American intelligence or the safety of the American people. Now what will the self-destructive Dutch do with this guy?
    He was jailed for some time (after his arrival from Pakistan) but he has since been released, his passport taken from him and he has to report to the police in Rotterdam every day.

    And I am sorry, but this whole issue could have been avoided if the US has just asked Pakistan to extradite the man to the United States, instead of doing it through the Netherlands.
    Former military man (and now babysitter of Donald Trump) John Kelly, is a big loud lying empty barrel!

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    Re: Dutch court blocks extradition to U.S. over torture concerns.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter King View Post
    It was not Feinstein only, the connection between the CIA and the ISI was also documented by NGO's like Amnesty. And I would think most secret services know about the connection between the CIA and ISI too.
    ISI - Pakistan? What does that have to do with it? The probability of a person extradited by a European nation to the US being tortured was always remote, but is now less likely than were they extradited to some European countries.
    But the Obama/Feinstein idiocy as intellectually corrupt as the broad brush allegations were have made sensible action more difficult for the court.

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