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Thread: Sammamish considers underage drinking fines for adults

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    Re: Town in WA St. proposes fines for using social media for underage drinking partie

    I read the article you linked and didn't see any reference to social media being used as additional punishment, which seems dubious in terms of constitutionality anyway.
    "The side that stays within its fortifications is beaten." ~Napoleon

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    Re: Town in WA St. proposes fines for using social media for underage drinking partie

    I think they are using this ordinance as a pretext to be able to subpoena phone records associated with the parties and arrest as many people as possible on as many offenses as possible, including sexting.

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    Re: Town in WA St. proposes fines for using social media for underage drinking partie

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    Hmm... Mean old Mr. Wilson goes on vacation and someone (the paper boy?) posts a pool party invitation at his address.

    What crime did Mr. Wilson commit?
    This is a good question and not one that I saw included in the proposal. It may be covered in the full initiative. To me, that is trespassing and a crime has been committed "against" the property owner.
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    Re: Town in WA St. proposes fines for using social media for underage drinking partie

    Quote Originally Posted by Unrepresented View Post
    I read the article you linked and didn't see any reference to social media being used as additional punishment, which seems dubious in terms of constitutionality anyway.
    That's true....the fine isnt higher and the law isnt based on social media. I shouldnt have focused on that. When they were interviewing people here on the news, that was the focus, how the parties now get so big because kids go on social media and tell people, and then to make it worse, it's alot of people that dont know each other at all so there are more violent incidents.

    So I guess that shouldnt...and doesnt...factor into the main concern which is, is it fair to hold the parents responsible?
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
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    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

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    Re: Town in WA St. proposes fines for using social media for underage drinking partie

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    This is a good question and not one that I saw included in the proposal. It may be covered in the full initiative. To me, that is trespassing and a crime has been committed "against" the property owner.
    If neither consent nor knowledge of the party need be proven then that matters not. Too often these "we must do something" laws backfire or are so poorly written or selectively enforced as to be meaningless. The first time a poor man gets evicted for paying the "party place" fine instead of his rent (or is jailed for not doing so) the law will be stricken by the courts. This is even more ridiculous than charging the vehicle's registered owner for a traffic camera moving violation and simply assuming that they were behind the wheel. The owner should not be held responsible for any unauthorized use of their property.

    EDIT: Whoops, does the "party place" law even apply to rented property or does the landlord (property owner) get fined instead of the tenant?
    Last edited by ttwtt78640; 01-19-15 at 07:02 PM.
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    Re: Town in WA St. proposes fines for using social media for underage drinking partie

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    If neither consent nor knowledge of the party need be proven then that matters not. Too often these "we must do something" laws backfire or are so poorly written or selectively enforced as to be meaningless. The first time a poor man gets evicted for paying the "party place" fine instead of his rent (or is jailed for not doing so) the law will be stricken by the courts. This is even more ridiculous than charging the vehicle's registered owner for a traffic camera moving violation and simply assuming that they were behind the wheel. The owner should not be held responsible for any unauthorized use of their property.
    Well both suburbs where they are proposing this are very (very) affluent. That said of course there are some less affluent people and I'm sure it will be contested in the courts. Lots of deep pockets. They may not object to the fines but if kids are killed, then the liability issues and $$ skyrocket. They already do hold parents responsible if they knowingly let underage kids drink and something happens. This will solidify that law and make it easier to hold them responsible.

    But yes, I do think it will be challenged in court.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

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    Re: Town in WA St. proposes fines for using social media for underage drinking partie

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    That's true....the fine isnt higher and the law isnt based on social media. I shouldnt have focused on that. When they were interviewing people here on the news, that was the focus, how the parties now get so big because kids go on social media and tell people, and then to make it worse, it's alot of people that dont know each other at all so there are more violent incidents.

    So I guess that shouldnt...and doesnt...factor into the main concern which is, is it fair to hold the parents responsible?
    Parents are responsible for their children's actions either way, this is simply codifying the expectations and punishments as opposed to retroactively determining them.

    It comes across a little Footloose-esque, but I don't know that it's unreasonable or doesn't benefit the public interest.
    "The side that stays within its fortifications is beaten." ~Napoleon

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    Re: Town in WA St. proposes fines for using social media for underage drinking partie

    Again, unintended consequences need to be considered. For example, kids may start having their parties in abandoned buildings or out in the woods, which could result in worse outcomes.

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    Re: Town in WA St. proposes fines for using social media for underage drinking partie

    Quote Originally Posted by Hard Truth View Post
    Again, unintended consequences need to be considered. For example, kids may start having their parties in abandoned buildings or out in the woods, which could result in worse outcomes.
    I really don't care. Everyone needs to learn that actions have consequences. If some kids die because they're being idiots and their parents didn't raise them properly, I'm fine with that.
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    Re: Town in WA St. proposes fines for using social media for underage drinking partie

    Quote Originally Posted by Hard Truth View Post
    Again, unintended consequences need to be considered. For example, kids may start having their parties in abandoned buildings or out in the woods, which could result in worse outcomes.
    I think the point was that the outcomes had gotten quite serious. How are those places worse?

    The interview comments were about social media making the parties known to way more numbers of people and that they were no longer people that the host knew. And so violence was more common. In some ways, at least those remote parties wouldnt destroy people's homes and wouldnt bother everyone else in the neighborhood.

    One of the stories related to this last yr was a party that took place while parents were away, unknowing, and they came home to $10,000 damage.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

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