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Thread: The 1% will own more than the 99% by 2016, report says

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    Re: The 1% will own more than the 99% by 2016, report says

    Quote Originally Posted by whysoserious View Post
    And you don't accredit any of it to predatory lending either?
    "Predatory lending" was a problem but I don't consider it to be the key problem because predatory lending as "the problem" really only applies to those that were tricked into taking ARM's that, when they ballooned, would be unaffordable. It turned out most of the defaults of these hybrid ARMS happened before the rate reset, which means that the defaults weren't due to the mortgage broker tricking the homeowners into balloon mortgages. If it weren't for all the "strategic defaults" by people that actually COULD afford to make their payments, it would have been a big bump in the market, but not the crisis we saw that went global.

    Nearly a year after the Obama administration unveiled its ambitious housing rescue program, foreclosure tallies continue to break records. Foreclosure filings were reported on more than 2.8 million properties in 2009, up 21 percent from the previous year and 120 percent from 2007, according to RealtyTrac. With nearly 10 percent of mortgages now delinquent--which is also a new record--even more homeowners appear headed for foreclosure this year. "A massive supply of delinquent loans continues to loom over the housing market," RealtyTrac CEO James J. Saccacio said in a statement. "Many of those delinquencies will end up in the foreclosure process in 2010 and beyond."

    [See Tips for Selling a Home in the Off-Season.]

    Homeowners have found themselves in foreclosure for a number of reasons. Some purchased properties they could never really afford. Others lost their jobs--the national unemployment rate remains in the double digits--and had no way to make mortgage payments. But as the crisis rumbles forward, an additional driver of home foreclosures has become clear: Many borrowers have the means to keep paying the mortgage but are simply walking away because they believe it's best for their finances.

    The number of so called "strategic defaults" more than doubled, to 588,000, from 2007 to 2008, according to a study by Experian and Oliver Wyman. A separate 2009 survey found that more than a quarter of all existing defaults were strategic. Meanwhile, a growing number of academics are touting the financial benefits of walking away. "Homeowners should be walking away in droves," Brent T. White, a University of Arizona law school professor, said in a recent paper. "The financial costs of foreclosure, while not insignificant, are minimal compared to the financial benefit of strategic default."
    And I blame people like Brent T. White (who sounds like your typical liberal professor) who urged people to walk away from their loans if they owed more than the house was worth in the market at the time. That's classic liberal contempt for personal responsibility with the call to just go ahead and let others pay for one's bad decisions. The fact that homeowners DID walk away in droves when they could actually afford to make their mortgage payments was contemptible. They stuck everyone else with their bad debts and in the end, the entire global economy paid for it.
    You can't reason anyone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into in the first place.

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    Re: The 1% will own more than the 99% by 2016, report says

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    Hilarious. I'd love to work for a bank run by you. After I made a bunch of loans to known deadbeats, collected my production bonus, spent it, you promoted me, and then the loans all started defaulting, I'd blame the deadbeats for not paying back the loans I BEGGED them take, and you'd believe ME!
    Unless you lied when putting together the loan for approval, you're not the one to blame here. If the lending standards are such that you can make the loan honestly and we sell it to Fannie Mae in accordance with government regulations there's no wrongdoing. This goes back to the CRA which you like to hold blameless in all of this. If you lied when you submitted the mortgages for approval, however, you'd be in jail because I'd have you prosecuted for fraud. And since I'm pretty sure you'd be one of the guys lying and cheating, I figure you wouldn't be nearly as happy to be working for a bank I'd be managing as you think you would be. Just sayin'.

    Meanwhile, let's get back to discussing the "strategic defaults" which, in my opinion, were the most unforgivable aspect of all the unethical things that caused the crash. That's where people who could have made good on their obligations just decided they'd rather take the damage to their credit rating than make good on the obligations they signed up for in good faith.
    You can't reason anyone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into in the first place.

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    Re: The 1% will own more than the 99% by 2016, report says

    Quote Originally Posted by mpg View Post
    Can you please elaborate on the comment that I enlarged? Thank you.
    Go thru the thread- it has been posted a number of time. Your welcome.
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    Re: The 1% will own more than the 99% by 2016, report says

    Quote Originally Posted by whysoserious View Post
    And you don't accredit any of it to predatory lending either?
    You want to go after true "predatory lending"? Do something about the 'pay day lenders', and the 'title loan places'.... These parasites go after the poorest of society with APR's that can top 300% annually....But I don't see anyone going after them.
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    Re: The 1% will own more than the 99% by 2016, report says

    Quote Originally Posted by ludin View Post
    this folks is liberal logic at it's finest.

    nope not making stuff up at all. if liberals spent less time ranting about the 1% and more time working and doing stuff then they would be in the 1% as well.
    That is impossible by definition.

    The world can't afford the 1% we have now.

    Twice as many would be 2%.
    Anyone wondering what I'm talking about start here:
    The Psychology of Persuasion

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    Re: The 1% will own more than the 99% by 2016, report says

    Quote Originally Posted by What if...? View Post
    That is impossible by definition.

    The world can't afford the 1% we have now.

    Twice as many would be 2%.
    see what I mean folks? no clue about what they are talking about.

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    Re: The 1% will own more than the 99% by 2016, report says

    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    "Predatory lending" was a problem but I don't consider it to be the key problem because predatory lending as "the problem" really only applies to those that were tricked into taking ARM's that, when they ballooned, would be unaffordable. It turned out most of the defaults of these hybrid ARMS happened before the rate reset, which means that the defaults weren't due to the mortgage broker tricking the homeowners into balloon mortgages. If it weren't for all the "strategic defaults" by people that actually COULD afford to make their payments, it would have been a big bump in the market, but not the crisis we saw that went global.



    And I blame people like Brent T. White (who sounds like your typical liberal professor) who urged people to walk away from their loans if they owed more than the house was worth in the market at the time. That's classic liberal contempt for personal responsibility with the call to just go ahead and let others pay for one's bad decisions. The fact that homeowners DID walk away in droves when they could actually afford to make their mortgage payments was contemptible. They stuck everyone else with their bad debts and in the end, the entire global economy paid for it.
    I do agree that the people who could afford their mortgage but walked away were a problem, but I disagree with that argument for two main reasons:

    1) It seems hard to blame people for the mortgage crisis, when they were underwater because of the mortgage crisis. They piled on top, for sure, but these people came after the collapse unlike the defaults on mortgages, losses in mortgage-backed securities, and total meltdown of credit-default swaps.

    2) He may be "your typical liberal" professor, but I can think of nothing more conservative than that ideal. That's the "free market" in motion. It's a bad investment, it's value has been reassessed, so **** it, right?

    What's weird is that you give the free market a pass to value someone at $7.00 an hour, but you force personal responsibility on a personal level when walking away from a mortgage. Both are value related. Both impact the economy negatively. Both impact others negatively. But one you think is normal and correct, and the other you find morally reprehensible (so of course it's liberal).
    Ted Cruz is the dumbest person alive.

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    Re: The 1% will own more than the 99% by 2016, report says

    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    And I blame people like Brent T. White (who sounds like your typical liberal professor) who urged people to walk away from their loans if they owed more than the house was worth in the market at the time. That's classic liberal contempt for personal responsibility with the call to just go ahead and let others pay for one's bad decisions. The fact that homeowners DID walk away in droves when they could actually afford to make their mortgage payments was contemptible. They stuck everyone else with their bad debts and in the end, the entire global economy paid for it.
    If that was a bankruptcy attorney advising a corporate client, he'd be sued for malpractice and he'd lose if he didn't give that EXACT advice to his client.

    It's unclear to me why an individual has a moral obligation to repay a loan, but you'd demand that a corporation you held an interest in default if that was 1) legal, and 2) maximized shareholder return. Does corporate America also have a "liberal contempt for personal responsibility" or are you just applying one set of rules for the proles and another for businesses and plutocrats? I'm guessing the latter.

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    Re: The 1% will own more than the 99% by 2016, report says

    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    Unless you lied when putting together the loan for approval, you're not the one to blame here. If the lending standards are such that you can make the loan honestly and we sell it to Fannie Mae in accordance with government regulations there's no wrongdoing. This goes back to the CRA which you like to hold blameless in all of this. If you lied when you submitted the mortgages for approval, however, you'd be in jail because I'd have you prosecuted for fraud. And since I'm pretty sure you'd be one of the guys lying and cheating, I figure you wouldn't be nearly as happy to be working for a bank I'd be managing as you think you would be. Just sayin'.
    I'm the one who would be lying and cheating? What gives you that idea. If I was happy lying and cheating, I'd be a stockbroker or annuities salesman, not a tax accountant.

    And for the rest of your points, you're conflating all kinds of things and I don't have the interest in untangling it all. Bottom line is lenders are responsible for making good loans - that is step one of "How to run a lending institution." Step 2 is maintain adequate reserves to protect your institution WHEN loans go bad. They fail step one and two, massively, pay themselves like kings while the going is good, and you blame the borrowers when the crap hits the fan. It's funny.

    Meanwhile, let's get back to discussing the "strategic defaults" which, in my opinion, were the most unforgivable aspect of all the unethical things that caused the crash. That's where people who could have made good on their obligations just decided they'd rather take the damage to their credit rating than make good on the obligations they signed up for in good faith.
    Addressed elsewhere. Lenders operate exclusively to maximize profits, but you expect borrowers to repay a loan when the profit maximizing choice is to default? Hahaha....

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    Re: The 1% will own more than the 99% by 2016, report says

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    You want to go after true "predatory lending"? Do something about the 'pay day lenders', and the 'title loan places'.... These parasites go after the poorest of society with APR's that can top 300% annually....But I don't see anyone going after them.
    No **** man. And rent-to-own places. The worst...
    Ted Cruz is the dumbest person alive.

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