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Obama to call for new tax increases in State of the Union address

Do you think this country has a lot of waste in the budget?

Sure, every budget has waste in it.

But every penny that is wasted, re-enters our private sector economy. It's not like money can only be spent once.

Now if it was up to me, I would phase out all means tested spending, which is essentially paying people to do nothing, and I would divert that money into infrastructure spending which can improve everyone's lives, and facilitate private sector growth.

If we had never built the Hoover Damn, LA and Vegas wouldn't be the booming places they are today. If we wouldn't have built our roadways, companies like UPS wouldn't exist. If we didn't have an education work force, many a company wouldn't exist.
 
Look, I know that 9/11 actually didn't happen and it was drones that took down the WTC and of course all those Dead Americans really are still walking around the Bermuda Triangle but the issue is this, the U.S. Treasury paid for 9/11, paid for the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq with all those expenses in the debt that Obama inherited. there are no wars going on right now, no 9/11 and yet Obama wants to spend 3.9 trillion and liberals here support it. Why do we need a 3.9 trillion dollar budget?

So Bush had a balanced budget?

Geesh, I've been lied to again by the your treasury links!
 
That may be true, but it doesn't negate the fact that the federal government spends money on education. Don't pretend that it doesn't, we all know better.


As for roads, again, only Federal highway maintenance and bridges are funded by the gasoline and motor fuel taxes so the rhetoric sounds great but is just isn't true. Where are all the excise taxes collected since the tax system was established? Are you telling me that more money has gone out for roads and bridges than collected? [.quote]

I have no clue, but regardless of what type of tax funds infrastructure, federal infrastructure spending still exists.



What's your point? That the federal government isn't spending much on education? OK, you won and I agree!

Of course the govt spends money on education, the question is why and what do they spend it on since education is a state and local responsibility? I asked you why we needed a 3.9 trillion dollar budget and you mentioned roads, schools, along with the military. I agree regarding the military but the other expenses are minimal and are a Federal overreach.

Yes the Federal govt spends on Roads but it collects revenue off the taxes to fund the roads why take more income tax revenue to do that? Income tax revenue has no business funding roads, schools, SS, Medicare, or even health and human services expenses
 
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Where the heck do you get that 9/11 is paid for?

Federal requirements and the debt we have today includes all funding on and off budget. That is a fact and maybe you should do some better research before posting
 
Of course the govt spends money on education, the question is why and what do they spend it on since education is a state and local responsibility? I asked you why we needed a 3.9 trillion dollar budget and you mentioned roads, schools, along with the military. I agree regarding the military but the other expenses are minimal and are a Federal overreach.

Yes the Federal govt spends on Roads but it collects revenue off the taxes to fund the roads why take more income tax revenue to do that? Income tax revenue has no business funding roads, schools, SS, Medicare, or even health and human services expenses

We pay for these things either way.

My original point was that third world countries don't spend much of this stuff, developed nations do. You don't think that there is any causation behind this correlation?
 
So Bush had a balanced budget?

Geesh, I've been lied to again by the your treasury links!

Where does the Treasury show that Bush had a balanced budget and where did I say that? Got you stumped on why we need a 3.9 trillion dollar budget, don't I? I cannot answer it either
 
We pay for these things either way.

My original point was that third world countries don't spend much of this stuff, developed nations do. You don't think that there is any causation behind this correlation?

Third world countries also don't have 50 sovereign states with their own taxes and revenue stream as well as tax structure. What you don't seem to understand is the more money the Federal Govt. takes from the taxpayers the less money the people of the state to have to spend within the state
 
Federal requirements and the debt we have today includes all funding on and off budget. That is a fact and maybe you should do some better research before posting

BS. The fact is that the debt we have today includes debt for the war on terror, war on poverty, war on drugs, war on damn commies, Richard Nixon's poodle's secret service detail, and everything else. We never pay off the principle on our debt and have not done so in generations. We just refinance the bonds when they come due. All we make is interest only payments and it has been that way since before I was born. Your comment is as devoid of reality as your comments the other adding up to that cutting federal spending by $600B would not eliminate the current deficit.
 
Where does the Treasury show that Bush had a balanced budget and where did I say that? Got you stumped on why we need a 3.9 trillion dollar budget, don't I? I cannot answer it either

You said that 911 was paid for. That implies, that there was no addition to the federal debt during the Bush years.
 
BS. The fact is that the debt we have today includes debt for the war on terror, war on poverty, war on drugs, war on damn commies, Richard Nixon's poodle's secret service detail, and everything else. We never pay off the principle on our debt and have not done so in generations. We just refinance the bonds when they come due. All we make is interest only payments and it has been that way since before I was born. Your comment is as devoid of reality as your comments the other adding up to that cutting federal spending by $600B would not eliminate the current deficit.

That is absolutely true so what is your point? All those expenses are paid for in the year they happened and part of the yearly deficits which are added to the debt. Here is something that may but probably won't give you information on the deficits and the debt. for your information the fiscal year of the U.S. runs from October to September so reviewing the numbers you will find that Obama inherited a 10.6 trillion dollar debt on January 21, 2009 and it is 18.2 trillion today. It does appear that you don't understand deficits and debt. Let me help you, deficits are yearly(October to September) and debt is the accumulation of deficits. Now I know that people like you are going to blame Bush for the 2009 deficit so if you can show me the budget that Bush signed for 2009 I will agree with you. You aren't going to like seeing the signature on that budget

I am waiting for you, Mr. Progressive to tell me why we need a 3.9 trillion dollar budget?

Debt to the Penny (Daily History Search Application)
 
Third world countries also don't have 50 sovereign states with their own taxes and revenue stream as well as tax structure. What you don't seem to understand is the more money the Federal Govt. takes from the taxpayers the less money the people of the state to have to spend within the state

So if our states jacked up tax rates, and the federal government correspondingly lowered tax rates, everything would be OK?

My feeling is that to the extent that taxation is tyranny, tyranny by the state is no better than tyranny by the federal government.
 
You said that 911 was paid for. That implies, that there was no addition to the federal debt during the Bush years.

All expenses on and off budget are part of the deficits for the fiscal year in which they incur and that includes supplemental expenses just like the supplement Obama generated with the stimulus, Afghanistan, and AIG Bailout. Not exactly sure what you are trying to do here but you are making me look extremely smart and we cannot allow that to happen

Debt to the Penny (Daily History Search Application)
 
So if our states jacked up tax rates, and took over all spending other than military, everything would be OK?

We will never know, liberals like being dependent on the Federal govt. and expanding their role or better yet having someone else to blame for failure. I love how liberals believe that it is the Federal government's role to take care of social issues at our state and local level. Now tell me exactly what a Federal bureaucrat knows about a social problem in upstate South Carolina? Get my point yet? Social problems are state and local issues not federal.
 
That is absolutely true so what is your point? All those expenses are paid for in the year they happened and part of the yearly deficits which are added to the debt. Here is something that may but probably won't give you information on the deficits and the debt. for your information the fiscal year of the U.S. runs from October to September so reviewing the numbers you will find that Obama inherited a 10.6 trillion dollar debt on January 21, 2009 and it is 18.2 trillion today. It does appear that you don't understand deficits and debt. Let me help you, deficits are yearly(October to September) and debt is the accumulation of deficits. Now I know that people like you are going to blame Bush for the 2009 deficit so if you can show me the budget that Bush signed for 2009 I will agree with you. You aren't going to like seeing the signature on that budget

I am waiting for you, Mr. Progressive to tell me why we need a 3.9 trillion dollar budget?

Debt to the Penny (Daily History Search Application)

Apparently all a POTUS has to do these days to pass on his problems to the next potus is to fail to fulfill his responsiblities. Wow. You guys can get very creative with this stuff.

Maybe Obama should jack up all of our spending during his last few months in office, so that Hillary (or whoever wins) can take the blame. That would be proof that he is a good POTUS, no?
 
Apparently all a POTUS has to do these days to pass on his problems to the next potus is to fail to fulfill his responsiblities. Wow. You guys can get very creative with this stuff.

Maybe Obama should jack up all of our spending during his last few months in office, so that Hillary (or whoever wins) can take the blame. That would be proof that he is a good POTUS, no?

Or you can do what Obama does take credit for proposing a 3.9 trillion dollar budget have it rejected and then take credit for cutting the deficit in half or he and his supporters can continue to blame Bush for the 2009 budget which Obama signed. That is more likely what is going to happen because it is happening
 
We will never know, liberals like being dependent on the Federal govt. and expanding their role or better yet having someone else to blame for failure. I love how liberals believe that it is the Federal government's role to take care of social issues at our state and local level. Now tell me exactly what a Federal bureaucrat knows about a social problem in upstate South Carolina? Get my point yet? Social problems are state and local issues not federal.

We have congress critters that represent SC. Maybe you've heard of people like Jim Demint, Trey Gowdy, Joe Wilson, Lindsy Graham or Tim Scott.
 
Or you can do what Obama does take credit for proposing a 3.9 trillion dollar budget have it rejected and then take credit for cutting the deficit in half or he and his supporters can continue to blame Bush for the 2009 budget which Obama signed. That is more likely what is going to happen because it is happening

We are talking about a 2.6% increase. That's far less than the Bush budgets or Reagan budgets increased from year to year.

If he had proposed a huge % increase, something substantially larger than inflation plus population growth, you would have a point.
 
We have congress critters that represent SC. Maybe you've heard of people like Jim Demint, Trey Gowdy, Joe Wilson, Lindsy Graham or Tim Scott.

Yeah, the last I heard they were one of 435 in the House and 100 in the Senate and we all know they are able to convince their cohorts of the problems in your area and are much better able to handle your local problems than your mayor, city council, or even your governor

Oh, by the way I am sure that your Representatives are concerned about the local conditions and problems in your community. Now he has to sell the other 434 that they are a priority
 
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We are talking about a 2.6% increase. That's far less than the Bush budgets or Reagan budgets increased from year to year.

If he had proposed a huge % increase, something substantially larger than inflation plus population growth, you would have a point.

I don't give a damn about the percentage increase, it is a massive budget with no wars, no 9/11 expense which should mean this is the time to cut the budget but not Obama who will take credit again when it is rejected and that reduces the deficit.

Why is it that liberals always talk about percentage increase which of course appeals to the other idiots that are liberals but is always a significant increase in actual budget dollar requirements. The higher the budget the lower the increase but the more actual dollars being spent. brilliant strategy
 
Why is it that liberals always talk about percentage increase which of course appeals to the other idiots that are liberals but is always a significant increase in actual budget dollar requirements. The higher the budget the lower the increase but the more actual dollars being spent. brilliant strategy

I'm far from a card carrying liberal, but probably because percentages matter.

Assuming that our last budget was about right (and I totally get that you don't think it was, but just humor me for a second), then increasing the next budget by enough to accommodate population growth and inflation is required to keep our budget "about right". Anything more than that represents an unneeded growth of government, which is exactly what happened under Reagan and both Bushes.

We could just as easily uses a per citizen figure, but that figure would still need to be adjusted for inflation, and inflation is always stated in percentages, so there would still be that "percentage" part of the forumula. There's no way around it.

Just be thankful that Obama didn't jack up our spending, in terms of percent, nearly as much as Reagan or the Bush family did. Adjusted for inflation and population, it's been pretty much flat, or maybe even slightly reduced.
 
Sure, every budget has waste in it.

But every penny that is wasted, re-enters our private sector economy. It's not like money can only be spent once.

Now if it was up to me, I would phase out all means tested spending, which is essentially paying people to do nothing, and I would divert that money into infrastructure spending which can improve everyone's lives, and facilitate private sector growth.

If we had never built the Hoover Damn, LA and Vegas wouldn't be the booming places they are today. If we wouldn't have built our roadways, companies like UPS wouldn't exist. If we didn't have an education work force, many a company wouldn't exist.

Even if we have to print it out of thin air right? Look, Obama was already given a trillion supposedly for infrastructure projects. He used it to line the pockets of his friends....Now he want's more....Government today is the equivalent of a heroin addict...They come to us every time saying that all they need is one more fix, then later they come back and say the same thing, and we keep giving it to them....
 
Even if we have to print it out of thin air right? Look, Obama was already given a trillion supposedly for infrastructure projects. He used it to line the pockets of his friends....Now he want's more....Government today is the equivalent of a heroin addict...They come to us every time saying that all they need is one more fix, then later they come back and say the same thing, and we keep giving it to them....

Its not possible to blame Obama for waste in infrastructure project spending. Most of that money was given to the States and they decided how it should be spent. People talk about infrastructure spending as if its optional but it isn't.
 
Even if we have to print it out of thin air right?

Yup, that would be my first choice. That's where money comes from!

Look, Obama was already given a trillion supposedly for infrastructure projects. He used it to line the pockets of his friends....

I dunno that it was that much, I assume you are referring to the spendulous bill, which was neither a trillion dollars or all spent on infrastructure, but I don't totally disagree.

Now he want's more....Government today is the equivalent of a heroin addict...They come to us every time saying that all they need is one more fix, then later they come back and say the same thing, and we keep giving it to them....

The government should spend on infrastructure every year. As our economy grows, and our population grows, and existing infrastructure wears out, it has to be replenished.

But I think that for some reason you have this idea that the 3.9 trillion dollar budget proposal is all jacked up. It's not. It's less than a 3% increase, far less than the Bush increases, less than Clintons increases, less than the Bush dad's increases, and less than the late great Ronald Reagan's increases. You do realize that the previous budget was 3.8 billion don't you?

There is actually nothing to get all outraged over, other than the Fox News headlines, which fail to inform you that it is less than a 3% increase. What Fox News doesn't want us to know is that even including the spendulous bill, Obama has increased spending at a slower rate than virtually any other president.

If you want you can give credit to republican obstructionism all you want, but he's not even ASKING or proposing an increase as much as what Bush or Reagan did.

I used to be a stanch conservative, just like you. Then I started looking at actual economic history, and realized that conservative rhetoric runs counter to reality. Seriously, if you want to retard government spending, and to reduce or eliminate the deficit, you have better vote for a democrat for president.
 
I'm far from a card carrying liberal, but probably because percentages matter.

Assuming that our last budget was about right (and I totally get that you don't think it was, but just humor me for a second), then increasing the next budget by enough to accommodate population growth and inflation is required to keep our budget "about right". Anything more than that represents an unneeded growth of government, which is exactly what happened under Reagan and both Bushes.

We could just as easily uses a per citizen figure, but that figure would still need to be adjusted for inflation, and inflation is always stated in percentages, so there would still be that "percentage" part of the forumula. There's no way around it.

Just be thankful that Obama didn't jack up our spending, in terms of percent, nearly as much as Reagan or the Bush family did. Adjusted for inflation and population, it's been pretty much flat, or maybe even slightly reduced.

Only someone who doesn't understand the role of the Federal Govt. can make a statement like that. Does it make sense to you, no wars, no 9/11, a growing economy and we need a 3.9 trillion dollar budget? Don't give a damn about population growth just the overreach of the Federal Govt. that is typical BS
 
Only someone who doesn't understand the role of the Federal Govt. can make a statement like that. Does it make sense to you, no wars, no 9/11, a growing economy and we need a 3.9 trillion dollar budget? Don't give a damn about population growth just the overreach of the Federal Govt. that is typical BS

You're right. We should slash military spending.
 
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