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Thread: Obama to call for new tax increases in State of the Union address

  1. #911
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    Re: Obama to call for new tax increases in State of the Union address

    Quote Originally Posted by Napoleon View Post
    Not unless they falsified their own data during the Reagan years. Why are you just looking at monthly figures anyway? If you're going to compare employment figures with income tax receipts then they have to be annualized..which is what the data I noted is in a year-over-year comparison using the BLS data I just linked to.



    And? Given your position on the source of the increase in revenue you still have to explain how an $11.8 billion increase happened when there was a net job loss of 871,000 and a $8.8 billion decrease happened when there was a net job increase of 130,800. Not to mention those pesky figures relating to '81. Clearly your position is mistaken and the increases were not due solely or primarily to an increase in employment.
    No data was falsified, just different tables used. I used the table that is used to post the official unemployment rate and that table shows the actual labor force as well as the total employment. The official unemployment rate takes the number of unemployed and divide it by the total labor force in that table. Suggest you learn how to use BLS data

    As for the increase in revenue, not sure how old you were in the early 80's or even if you were born but there was very high inflation which affected all aspects of the budget including revenue. The recession began in June 1981 and ended in November 1982. Reagan took office in January with 99 million working Americans and left it at 116 million or a 17 million increase.

    Now since you are so concerned about revenue why aren't you excited about the 17 million new taxpayers? Why aren't you more concerned about keeping more of your own money so you need less of that so called Govt. help? Do you believe you can do more good with your money helping those in need than the Govt. helps? Do you think record numbers of people dependent on the Federal taxpayer for support is good fiscal policy and shows success for liberalism?

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    Re: Obama to call for new tax increases in State of the Union address

    Not allowing Americans to take the full deduction on their mortgage interest and state property taxes is going to cause a massive recession. A lot of people budget according to these deductions and buy houses accordingly to what that deduction allows them to afford. They buy much like an investment in that they buy as much as they can with the idea of selling it for more down the road.

    This will be problematic everywhere, especially places where property values are sky high like New York, California, etc.

    This will be like the mortgage loan crisis times 1000. The housing market will collapse.

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    Re: Obama to call for new tax increases in State of the Union address

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    No data was falsified, just different tables used. I used the table that is used to post the official unemployment rate and that table shows the actual labor force as well as the total employment. The official unemployment rate takes the number of unemployed and divide it by the total labor force in that table. Suggest you learn how to use BLS data.
    I suggest you learn a little something about analytics. Your claim that job growth was solely or primarily responsible for the increase in income tax revenue is dead wrong as I've demonstrated several times already. You are still wrong no matter how many times you try to change the subject.

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    Re: Obama to call for new tax increases in State of the Union address

    Quote Originally Posted by Napoleon View Post
    I suggest you learn a little something about analytics. Your claim that job growth was solely or primarily responsible for the increase in income tax revenue is dead wrong as I've demonstrated several times already. You are still wrong no matter how many times you try to change the subject.
    Whether it had everything to do with it not isn't as important as the doubling of GDP, the 17 million jobs created, and 60+% increase in FIT revenue, and the Reagan landslide victory in 1984. You can spin it anyway you want but since you weren't obviously there you have no idea what the economic climate was and morale of the country.

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    Re: Obama to call for new tax increases in State of the Union address

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Whether it had everything to do with it not isn't as important....
    I think thats as close to an admission of being wrong that anyone has ever seen out of you. I'll take it.

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    Re: Obama to call for new tax increases in State of the Union address

    Quote Originally Posted by Napoleon View Post
    I think thats as close to an admission of being wrong that anyone has ever seen out of you. I'll take it.
    Run with it brother, anything to make you happy. Never have I claimed that the increase in FIT revenue was due entirely to the 17 million jobs created because there are indeed other factors involved. The real issue was the success of the Reagan economic policy and the demonizations by Keynesian supporters of that economic policy

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    Re: Obama to call for new tax increases in State of the Union address

    One little item from Conservative's post #911
    Now since you are so concerned about revenue why aren't you excited about the 17 million new taxpayers?
    With all of the present day attacks on the "47% of Americans don't pay (federal) taxes!" and with the Reagan-era tax cuts, even though taxes were raised three times, just not on the 1%, does anyone think all of those 17 million paid income taxes?
    “And I have no doubt that every new example will succeed, as every past one has done, in shewing that religion & Govt will both exist in greater purity, the less they are mixed together.”
    ~ James Madison, letter to Edward Livingston, July 10, 1822

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    Re: Obama to call for new tax increases in State of the Union address

    Quote Originally Posted by Somerville View Post
    One little item from Conservative's post #911
    With all of the present day attacks on the "47% of Americans don't pay (federal) taxes!" and with the Reagan-era tax cuts, even though taxes were raised three times, just not on the 1%, does anyone think all of those 17 million paid income taxes?
    How old were you during the Reagan term? So tell me do you understand withholding? You claim taxes were raised three times during the Reagan term, please show me where INCOME TAXES were raised.

    Let me ask you what others seem to refuse to answer, is there ever a point in your world where the Federal Govt. gets big enough for you? What is it about socialism that really excites you, taking from someone else so you can have what they have?? Does incentive and personal responsibility reside in your world?

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    Re: Obama to call for new tax increases in State of the Union address

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    How old were you during the Reagan term? So tell me do you understand withholding? You claim taxes were raised three times during the Reagan term, please show me where INCOME TAXES were raised.
    From the "liberal" (that's sarcasm) Mises Institute
    Reagan came into office proposing to cut personal income and business taxes. The Economic Recovery Act was supposed to reduce revenues by $749 billion over five years. But this was quickly reversed with the Tax Equity and Fiscal Responsibility Act of 1982. TEFRA—the largest tax increase in American history—was designed to raise $214.1 billion over five years, and took back many of the business tax savings enacted the year before. It also imposed withholding on interest and dividends, a provision later repealed over the president's objection.

    But this was just the beginning. In 1982 Reagan supported a five-cent-per-gallon gasoline tax and higher taxes on the trucking industry. Total increase: $5.5 billion a year. In 1983, on the recommendation of his Spcial Security Commission— chaired by the man he later made Fed chairman, Alan Green-span—Reagan called for, and received, Social Security tax increases of $165 billion over seven years. A year later came Reagan's Deficit Reduction Act to raise $50 billion.
    In 1986, a person who received between $7,010 and $9,170 paid 15% on that income, in 1987 the 15% rate dropped down to cover income of $1,800 to $16,800, in 1988 all income below $17,850 was subject to the 15% tax. In other words people working for minimum wages saw their taxes increase.

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Let me ask you what others seem to refuse to answer, is there ever a point in your world where the Federal Govt. gets big enough for you? What is it about socialism that really excites you, taking from someone else so you can have what they have?? Does incentive and personal responsibility reside in your world?
    Yes, the Federal Govt can get too big

    The socialism I understand, allows more citizens to rise up and increase their standard of living by not having to worry about how much a doctor visit costs or how one is going to pay for a college education. Democratic socialism means basic standards of living are supported for all. The argument from the right is always about fraud and how much it costs the taxpayers. There is no denying that there are criminal elements in human society but the amounts stolen or taken thru fraudulent claims are generally quite small and the societal plus economic benefits of a more highly-educated populace that doesn't worry about their kids going hungry or having a safe place to live should be obvious to all. I know they aren't obvious to too many but that's owing to ignorance and greed, IMO

    Yeah, incentive and personal responsibility reside in my hoped-for world because I have faith in the goodness of the majority of humans, unlike some. I don't view others as greedy, selfish bastards simply because they aren't like me, physically or racially - UNTIL they prove they are less than human, that is.
    Last edited by Somerville; 02-04-15 at 01:54 PM. Reason: forgot to include link
    “And I have no doubt that every new example will succeed, as every past one has done, in shewing that religion & Govt will both exist in greater purity, the less they are mixed together.”
    ~ James Madison, letter to Edward Livingston, July 10, 1822

  10. #920
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    Re: Obama to call for new tax increases in State of the Union address

    Quote Originally Posted by Somerville View Post
    From the "liberal" (that's sarcasm) Mises Institute


    In 1986, a person who received between $7,010 and $9,170 paid 15% on that income, in 1987 the 15% rate dropped down to cover income of $1,800 to $16,800, in 1988 all income below $17,850 was subject to the 15% tax. In other words people working for minimum wages saw their taxes increase.



    Yes, the Federal Govt can get too big

    The socialism I understand, allows more citizens to rise up and increase their standard of living by not having to worry about how much a doctor visit costs or how one is going to pay for a college education. Democratic socialism means basic standards of living are supported for all. The argument from the right is always about fraud and how much it costs the taxpayers. There is no denying that there are criminal elements in human society but the amounts stolen or taken thru fraudulent claims are generally quite small and the societal plus economic benefits of a more highly-educated populace that doesn't worry about their kids going hungry or having a safe place to live should be obvious to all. I know they aren't obvious to too many but that's owing to ignorance and greed, IMO

    Yeah, incentive and personal responsibility reside in my hoped-for world because I have faith in the goodness of the majority of humans, unlike some. I don't view others as greedy, selfish bastards simply because they aren't like me, physically or racially - UNTIL they prove they are less than human, that is.
    Wow, another liberal/socialist who doesn't understand what their taxes fund. Reagan cut FEDERAL INCOME TAXES and raised USE TAXES. One of these days you are going to learn that the unified budget isn't your friend nor the utopia that liberals want it to be. FIT revenue increased 62% after being cut three years in a row and after a recession that lasted from June 1981(before Reagan economic policies passed) and November 1982. Reagan economic policy doubled GDP, created 17 million jobs, and led to the largest landslide victory in modern history. Yes, seems that those tax increases you claimed didn't hurt enough people to prevent them from voting for Reagan and I wonder who those 17 million new job holders voted for?

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