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Thread: Obama to call for new tax increases in State of the Union address

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    Re: Obama to call for new tax increases in State of the Union address

    Quote Originally Posted by imagep View Post
    Most people believe that history is the best predictor of the future.

    Now exactly when in history did lower tax revenue result in less government spending?
    Isn't that the problem?
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

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    Re: Obama to call for new tax increases in State of the Union address

    Quote Originally Posted by SlevinKelevra View Post
    "Reagan proved deficits don't matter"
    Reagan's deficits created 17 million jobs that grew FIT 60 Plus %, doubled GDP, and created a peace dividend. Debt was 50% of GDP. Bush added 4.9 trillion to the debt, grew FIT 35%, increased GDP by 4.5 trillion dollars and had debt at 73% of GDP. Want to compare what Obama has done?

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    Re: Obama to call for new tax increases in State of the Union address

    Quote Originally Posted by imagep View Post
    If there was a connection between revenue and spending, then I would tend to agree with you. But there's not such a connection, as is evidenced by the existence of our deficit and debt.



    The meme "starve the beast" is the idea that if we cut taxation, we can force the government to spend less. Historically, it's never worked that way, we've just run a larger deficit. If we desire our government to spend less, then we should be meeting with our congress critters about spending less, not about running a larger deficit.
    You're right about that. Starving the beast would also require eliminating or curtailing its ability to borrow. In time I think the lenders will probably do that. Then rather that starving the beast it will likely kill it. I guess that won't happen until the beast has sucked up all the available wealth. Too bad we don't start working on it now.

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    Re: Obama to call for new tax increases in State of the Union address

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Reagan's deficits created 17 million jobs that grew FIT 60 Plus %, doubled GDP, and created a peace dividend. Debt was 50% of GDP. Bush added 4.9 trillion to the debt, grew FIT 35%, increased GDP by 4.5 trillion dollars and had debt at 73% of GDP. Want to compare what Obama has done?

    Want to start by giving correct and honest #s ?

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    Re: Obama to call for new tax increases in State of the Union address

    Quote Originally Posted by SlevinKelevra View Post
    Want to start by giving correct and honest #s ?
    My numbers come from BLS.gov, BEA.gov, and the U.S. Treasury websites. they are verifiable and easy to find. Refute them and prove those OFFICIAL sites wrong

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    Re: Obama to call for new tax increases in State of the Union address

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    My numbers come from BLS.gov, BEA.gov, and the U.S. Treasury websites. they are verifiable and easy to find. Refute them and prove those OFFICIAL sites wrong
    Debt was 84.51% of GDP at the end of Bush's FY run.
    Federal Debt: Total Public Debt as Percent of Gross Domestic Product - FRED - St. Louis Fed


    GDP grew 75.5% under Reagan's FY
    Gross Domestic Product - FRED - St. Louis Fed


    federal revenues under reagan grew 60%, this includes more than income taxes


    oh, and by the way
    reagan's "peace dividend" created OBL,
    and per your own words, government spending (and especially deficit spending, "creates jobs")



    now on to the comparison

    relative increase in debt/GDP
    Reagan: 63.5%
    GWB: 52.2%
    Obama: 19.8% to date



    Who is your fiscal conservative villain again?

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    Re: Obama to call for new tax increases in State of the Union address

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Isn't that the problem?
    That's exactly why I am saying that reducing tax revenue isn't a good idea, unless we first cut spending.

    We have to depend on the same people in congress to do something, regardless of whether it is reducing tax revenue, or cutting spending. It's not like there is one group of people who are in charge of cutting taxes, and a different group that are in charge of spending.
    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    ...I'm not interested in debating someone who is trolling for an argument....
    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    I see a big problem with the idea that whatever the majority wants is OK.

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    Re: Obama to call for new tax increases in State of the Union address

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Reagan's deficits created 17 million jobs that grew FIT 60 Plus %, doubled GDP,
    Glad to see that you have now come to realize that deficit spending is stimulative to the economy. I didn't know you were such a Keynesian.

    Anyhow, more jobs per year were created under Carter than Reagan.


    Bush added 4.9 trillion to the debt, grew FIT 35%, increased GDP by 4.5 trillion dollars and had debt at 73% of GDP.
    That's pretty pathetic isn't it? Even Carter had better economic performance.

    Want to compare what Obama has done?
    sure: Obama Outperforms Reagan On Jobs, Growth And Investing - Forbes

    Heck, there have been more jobs created under Obama in the last two years, than during the ENTIRE Bush administration(s) (all three Bush terms combined).
    Last edited by imagep; 01-25-15 at 12:06 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    ...I'm not interested in debating someone who is trolling for an argument....
    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    I see a big problem with the idea that whatever the majority wants is OK.

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    Re: Obama to call for new tax increases in State of the Union address

    Quote Originally Posted by SlevinKelevra View Post
    Debt was 84.51% of GDP at the end of Bush's FY run.
    Federal Debt: Total Public Debt as Percent of Gross Domestic Product - FRED - St. Louis Fed


    GDP grew 75.5% under Reagan's FY
    Gross Domestic Product - FRED - St. Louis Fed


    federal revenues under reagan grew 60%, this includes more than income taxes


    oh, and by the way
    reagan's "peace dividend" created OBL,
    and per your own words, government spending (and especially deficit spending, "creates jobs")



    now on to the comparison

    relative increase in debt/GDP
    Reagan: 63.5%
    GWB: 52.2%
    Obama: 19.8% to date



    Who is your fiscal conservative villain again?

    Interesting since BEA disagrees

    I don't use inflation adjust numbers because it was debt and GDP at the time not in 2005 numbers and debt service isn't inflation adjusted numbers

    Reagan took office with employment at 99 million and left it at 116 million

    Reagan took office with GDP at 2.8 trillion and left it at 5.6 trillion

    Reagan took office with FIT being at 250 billion at the end of 1980 and 450 billion after he left office in 1989

    Seems research isn't a strength of yours as you don't really understand the numbers you post

    That Peace Dividend allowed Clinton to create Bin Laden or did you forget the December 1998 PDB?

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    Re: Obama to call for new tax increases in State of the Union address

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    ...

    I don't use inflation adjust numbers because it...
    ...doesn't support your rhetoric.
    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    ...I'm not interested in debating someone who is trolling for an argument....
    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    I see a big problem with the idea that whatever the majority wants is OK.

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