• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

U.S. to begin to train and equip moderate Syria rebels

jonny5

jonny5

DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 4, 2012
Messages
27,581
Reaction score
4,664
Location
Republic of Florida
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian
Pentagon: U.S. to begin to train and equip moderate Syria rebels - CNN.com

(CNN)The U.S. military will deploy 400 trainers and hundreds more troops in a train-and-equip mission for Syrian rebel forces, the Pentagon said Friday.

This is part of an Obama administration plan to expand training for factions of moderate Syrian rebels.

Those groups are battling forces loyal to Syrian President Bashar al-Assad and extremist groups like ISIS, as well as others linked to al Qaeda.
Click to expand...

So these boots on the ground means we are officially at war with Syria, right? And that being the case, did the President consult with congress before putting US soldiers in harms way, as is required by law? And will he seek authorization as required by law?

How many wars is this now? Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Syria, Yemen, Somalia. You might say its one big war on terror.
 
jonny5 said:
So these boots on the ground means we are officially at war with Syria, right? And that being the case, did the President consult with congress before putting US soldiers in harms way, as is required by law? And will he seek authorization as required by law?

How many wars is this now? Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Syria, Yemen, Somalia. You might say its one big war on terror.
Click to expand...

That is the nature of war (national defense) - you must fight against all of those that chose to fight you. The attacked do not get to declare themselves too busy to deal with additional attackers. We could decide to wait until the attackers cross our borders, if you prefer, but zapping them outside the US limits the collateral damage to their current chosen locations.
 
So weve been bombing Iraq and Syria for months, have thousands on the ground in Iraq (some of whom have been attacked) with more to come, and now we are going into Syria.

And yet this conflict still has no name. Obama's ISIS war?

This is what happens when you cede nations like Iraq to Iran and terrorists. :doh
 
ttwtt78640 said:
That is the nature of war (national defense) - you must fight against all of those that chose to fight you. The attacked do not get to declare themselves too busy to deal with additional attackers. We could decide to wait until the attackers cross our borders, if you prefer, but zapping them outside the US limits the collateral damage to their current chosen locations.
Click to expand...

Bullcrap. That is the nature of "NATIONAL OFFENSE." We are
supporting Islamic fundamentalists, just like we funded al Qeda and OBL in Afghanistan. WE, the USA, and the Saudi ScumBag
Wahabbis are exporting lots of terror, but it's all good because it is good for business, don't ya' know?
 
DaveFagan said:
Bullcrap. That is the nature of "NATIONAL OFFENSE." We are
supporting Islamic fundamentalists, just like we funded al Qeda and OBL in Afghanistan. WE, the USA, and the Saudi ScumBag
Wahabbis are exporting lots of terror, but it's all good because it is good for business, don't ya' know?
Click to expand...

The best defense is a good offense. I tend to agree that we often define friends and enemies incorrectly - but we pay what we get for.
 
It appears BO still has not learned anything with these Rebel/Terrorists, huh?


U.S. strategy against Islamic State hits major hurdles.....

Senior U.S. military officers also privately warn that the so-called Syrian moderates that U.S. planners hope to recruit — opposition fighters without ties to the Islamic radicals — have been degraded by other factions and forces, including Assad's army, during the war.

We're not going to be able to build that kind of credible force in enough time to make a difference," said a senior U.S. officer who is involved in military operations against the militants and who asked for anonymity because he was not authorized to speak publicly. "We've watched the moderate opposition dwindle and dwindle and now there's very little left."....snip~

U.S. strategy against Islamic State hits major hurdles - LA Times


1,000 Syrian rebels defect to Islamic State in sign it’s still strengthening
McClatchy Washington Bureau July 8, 2014
Read more here: GAZIANTEP, Turkey: 1,000 Syrian rebels defect to Islamic State in sign it’s still strengthening | Syria | McClatchy DC






The Free Syrian Army was said to be a “moderate” and “secular” force, which was used as the rationale by U.S. officials to supply the opposition force with weapons and training. Sources told Homs, Syria-based Zaman Alwasl newspaper that several factions within the FSA, including Ahl Al Athar, Ibin al-Qa’im, and Aisha have pledged to support the Islamic State.

The Obama administration has delivered weapons, supplies, and CIA-sponsored training to the Free Syrian Army. United States intelligence analysts estimate that the U.S. has had a hand in training as many as 20,000 FSA rebels. The U.S. reportedly provided the FSA with weapons such as rockets and TOW anti-tank missiles, which were supplied through back-channels in Qatar and Saudi Arabia......snip~

http://www.breitbart.com/national-s...rmy-factions-join-islamic-state-terror-group/


U.S.-backed Syria rebels routed by fighters linked to al-Qaeda
(Washington Post) - The Obama administration’s Syria strategy suffered a major setback Sunday after fighters linked to al-Qaeda routed U.S.-backed rebels from their main northern strongholds, capturing significant quantities of weaponry, triggering widespread defections and ending hopes that Washington will readily find Syrian partners in its war against the Islamic State.

Moderate rebels who had been armed and trained by the United States either surrendered or defected to the extremists as the Jabhat al-Nusra group, affiliated with al-Qaeda, swept through the towns and villages the moderates controlled in the northern province of Idlib, in what appeared to be a concerted push to vanquish the moderate Free Syrian Army, according to rebel commanders, activists and analysts....snip~

U.S.-backed Syria rebels routed by fighters linked to al-Qaeda - The Washington Post
 
Last edited:
Wait a minute here, how did the US find out the people they're going to arm and train are moderates? Employment application?
 
DaveFagan said:
Bullcrap. That is the nature of "NATIONAL OFFENSE." We are
supporting Islamic fundamentalists, just like we funded al Qeda and OBL in Afghanistan. WE, the USA, and the Saudi ScumBag
Wahabbis are exporting lots of terror, but it's all good because it is good for business, don't ya' know?
Click to expand...

The Saudis aren't exporting terror.. they fight and imprison terrorists and freeze their assets, plus they have an active campaign to prevent young Saudis from going to fight with ISIS or AQ or any others.
 
AJiveMan said:
Wait a minute here, how did the US find out the people they're going to arm and train are moderates? Employment application?
Click to expand...


They asked the "perception management" departments at the NY Times, the Washington Post, FAUXnews, and a known unknown agency dissemenating unknown knowns regarding unknown unknowns and operating in or near the Nation's capitol and so secret that those working there don't even know how to spell the name of the three letter Agency, but though spelling is not their forte, their budgets increase nicely if you have more enemies or even frenemies if alternatives are not provided. Bottom line is that although they can deny even the thought that perhaps they provided input to the assessments of these "allegedly" moderate rebels, it is nothing more than unsubstatiated supposition and the fact they are training these same "alleged" moderate rebels is the stuff of conspiracy theory.
 
Sooda said:
The Saudis aren't exporting terror.. they fight and imprison terrorists and freeze their assets, plus they have an active campaign to prevent young Saudis from going to fight with ISIS or AQ or any others.
Click to expand...

An acquaintance of mine said something like that and I asked him what he had been smokin'? Wahabbis are the root of al Qeda. It was Saudi Nationals that did 9/11. OBL was funded and armed by Saudis and the CIA. OBL was a Saudi. The Saudis behead lots of foreign Nationals to the tune of 43% of beheadings. That is the same technique used by ISIS and ISIS is wreaking havoc with Saudi OIL competitors in the Saudi neighborhood. I know, I know , it just looks like Big Money conspiracy and skullduggery, and the Saudi scumbags are sweethearts, don't ya' know? I know those really warm-hearted Saudis wouldn't spend billions of dollars to support agents of destruction working against nations that are detrimental to the Saudi OIL monopoly, or not? KeeeRisssst, don't ya' know, that would be like cutting the price to less than half to destroy competition. To quote a not so great American, "jus bidness."
 
ttwtt78640 said:
That is the nature of war (national defense) - you must fight against all of those that chose to fight you. The attacked do not get to declare themselves too busy to deal with additional attackers. We could decide to wait until the attackers cross our borders, if you prefer, but zapping them outside the US limits the collateral damage to their current chosen locations.
Click to expand...

That makes sense, but I was making a statement about Obamas hypocrisy and incompetence.
 
DaveFagan said:
An acquaintance of mine said something like that and I asked him what he had been smokin'? Wahabbis are the root of al Qeda. It was Saudi Nationals that did 9/11. OBL was funded and armed by Saudis and the CIA. OBL was a Saudi. The Saudis behead lots of foreign Nationals to the tune of 43% of beheadings. That is the same technique used by ISIS and ISIS is wreaking havoc with Saudi OIL competitors in the Saudi neighborhood. I know, I know , it just looks like Big Money conspiracy and skullduggery, and the Saudi scumbags are sweethearts, don't ya' know? I know those really warm-hearted Saudis wouldn't spend billions of dollars to support agents of destruction working against nations that are detrimental to the Saudi OIL monopoly, or not? KeeeRisssst, don't ya' know, that would be like cutting the price to less than half to destroy competition. To quote a not so great American, "jus bidness."
Click to expand...

OBL wasnt exactly doing this for Saudi Arabia. Those guys are as opposed to the Saudi govt as they are to the US.
 
US Conservative said:
So weve been bombing Iraq and Syria for months, have thousands on the ground in Iraq (some of whom have been attacked) with more to come, and now we are going into Syria.

And yet this conflict still has no name. Obama's ISIS war?

This is what happens when you cede nations like Iraq to Iran and terrorists. :doh
Click to expand...

Yeah, where's the Declaration of War from Congress? :2razz:
 
DaveFagan said:
An acquaintance of mine said something like that and I asked him what he had been smokin'? Wahabbis are the root of al Qeda. It was Saudi Nationals that did 9/11. OBL was funded and armed by Saudis and the CIA. OBL was a Saudi. The Saudis behead lots of foreign Nationals to the tune of 43% of beheadings. That is the same technique used by ISIS and ISIS is wreaking havoc with Saudi OIL competitors in the Saudi neighborhood. I know, I know , it just looks like Big Money conspiracy and skullduggery, and the Saudi scumbags are sweethearts, don't ya' know? I know those really warm-hearted Saudis wouldn't spend billions of dollars to support agents of destruction working against nations that are detrimental to the Saudi OIL monopoly, or not? KeeeRisssst, don't ya' know, that would be like cutting the price to less than half to destroy competition. To quote a not so great American, "jus bidness."
Click to expand...


It wasn't Saudi nationals.. there were six that remain unidentified because they used false papers.. They were very likely Hajj overstayers who used the US consulate to get visas into the US.. KSA students have had a fast track for US visas since early 1950.

Saudi only beheads people convicted of rape, murder and other capital crimes.

Wahhabi had NO connection to Al Qaeda.. AQ's Islam is a combination of Deobandi and Egyptian nationalist thought dating back to the early Muslim Brotherhood. OBL was the black sheep of his family..

The Saudis aren't out to break the US shale industry.. They are putting the screws to Russia and Iran as well as ISIS. Shale oil is not a competition for Saudi oil .. We don't export US oil and We buy less Saudi oil now than anytime in the past two decades.

You really should follow the oil business more closely... Iraq just announced they will double production out of Kirkuk this year.
 
Obama has finally decided to send American troops to assist Syrian terro..i mean rebels, has he?
 
Good grief. These people better know what they are doing.
 
jonny5 said:
So these boots on the ground means we are officially at war with Syria, right? And that being the case, did the President consult with congress before putting US soldiers in harms way, as is required by law? And will he seek authorization as required by law?

How many wars is this now? Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Syria, Yemen, Somalia. You might say its one big war on terror.
Click to expand...

Arming rebels...that always turns out well.
 
1.)This is breaking news? We have been doing this for the bast 3 years now.... U.S. has secretly provided arms training to Syria rebels since 2012 - Los Angeles Times Americans are training Syria rebels in Jordan: Spiegel | Reuters West training Syrian rebels in Jordan | World news | The Guardian
2.)I wonder what their endgame is? Lets say in some god given miracle theses "moderate rebels" actually win. What happens? Peace and democracy!? I doubt it, I bet the factions turn against each other and we have something like current day Libya..... It looks like Obama stays the course of the neo-liberal foreign policy that has been with us for the past 30 years...
 
TheDemSocialist said:
1.)This is breaking news? We have been doing this for the bast 3 years now.... U.S. has secretly provided arms training to Syria rebels since 2012 - Los Angeles Times Americans are training Syria rebels in Jordan: Spiegel | Reuters West training Syrian rebels in Jordan | World news | The Guardian
2.)I wonder what their endgame is? Lets say in some god given miracle theses "moderate rebels" actually win. What happens? Peace and democracy!? I doubt it, I bet the factions turn against each other and we have something like current day Libya..... It looks like Obama stays the course of the neo-liberal foreign policy that has been with us for the past 30 years...
Click to expand...

Honestly, you know why they are doing this? Because they don't have the balls to go all in to solve the problem. And until the problem warrants that level of a solution, they will continue to try and copy of the success of the Afghan Campaign* (by success I mean ousting the Taliban from power.)
 
Hamster Buddha said:
Honestly, you know why they are doing this? Because they don't have the balls to go all in to solve the problem. And until the problem warrants that level of a solution, they will continue to try and copy of the success of the Afghan Campaign* (by success I mean ousting the Taliban from power.)
Click to expand...

So you want to currently invade Syria?
 
TheDemSocialist said:
So you want to currently invade Syria?
Click to expand...

Currently? No. The political will doesn't exist for something on that scale. But at some point down the line, one of these whack job lone wolf terrorist will get a hold of something that can do a little more damage than an AK. The problem with Islam today, not just the "radical Islamist" is that when they are introduced to new societies, instead of assimilating into the culture, they bring their own over and believe it to be superior. And as long as that belief is held, there will be conflict. Especially when so many support the use of violence, even if they themselves will not commit it. And on that day when the dead bodies will have to be dumped in mass graves because there's just too many to hold proper funeral for, we'll have to start treating Islam as the threat to our society as it is. At the very least the Middle East will have to be confronted. And if we don't then we'll lose all of Europe to that ideology, as that is the course we are on.
 
Hamster Buddha said:
Currently? No. The political will doesn't exist for something on that scale. But at some point down the line, one of these whack job lone wolf terrorist will get a hold of something that can do a little more damage than an AK. The problem with Islam today, not just the "radical Islamist" is that when they are introduced to new societies, instead of assimilating into the culture, they bring their own over and believe it to be superior. And as long as that belief is held, there will be conflict. Especially when so many support the use of violence, even if they themselves will not commit it. And on that day when the dead bodies will have to be dumped in mass graves because there's just too many to hold proper funeral for, we'll have to start treating Islam as the threat to our society as it is. At the very least the Middle East will have to be confronted. And if we don't then we'll lose all of Europe to that ideology, as that is the course we are on.
Click to expand...

Its going to happen-there will be a large scale conflict (maybe this is the start of it-ceding Iraq to terrorists and whats happening in Syria). I think when it does most westerners will prefer to fight there rather than fight in europe and elsewhere.

I wasn't around in the years before WW2, but I can't help but note the same feeling-everyone knows war is coming-the question is when and where and why.
 
Hamster Buddha said:
Currently? No. The political will doesn't exist for something on that scale. But at some point down the line, one of these whack job lone wolf terrorist will get a hold of something that can do a little more damage than an AK. The problem with Islam today, not just the "radical Islamist" is that when they are introduced to new societies, instead of assimilating into the culture, they bring their own over and believe it to be superior. And as long as that belief is held, there will be conflict. Especially when so many support the use of violence, even if they themselves will not commit it. And on that day when the dead bodies will have to be dumped in mass graves because there's just too many to hold proper funeral for, we'll have to start treating Islam as the threat to our society as it is. At the very least the Middle East will have to be confronted. And if we don't then we'll lose all of Europe to that ideology, as that is the course we are on.
Click to expand...

Big hypothetical example. So what do you think that should be done?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom