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Thread: U.S. to begin to train and equip moderate Syria rebels

  1. #71
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    Re: U.S. to begin to train and equip moderate Syria rebels

    Quote Originally Posted by US Conservative View Post
    A transparent excuse. What about Obama's military advisors explaining what would happen?
    I see, America should just ignore agreements they sign with other countries.

    President Bush and Iraq Prime Minister Maliki Sign the Strategic Framework Agreement and Security Agreement

    The USA should just do what it wants to do, and be the world's police force,

    just think of all those Iraqis who were trained to protect themselves, and who received money, support and arms to defend their country with, all down the drain because their people were too gutless and lacked spine enough to protect themselves. They abandoned equipment and arms a ran away from a fight like little baby school boys.

    Anything else you want to add to the conversation? Other than blame Obama?

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    Re: U.S. to begin to train and equip moderate Syria rebels

    Quote Originally Posted by Hamster Buddha View Post
    Saudi Arabia and ISIS would never be allies. One's Sunni and the other's Shia with all the baggage that entails. Part of the reason for the Conflict in Iraq is that you have the Sunni ISIS that is pushing through friendly Sunni territory, and not is being resisted by Shia Iraq that will be backed by the Sauds.

    Something major would have to shift for these two to work together.
    If the whole world turns against them for instance.
    Quote Originally Posted by poweRob View Post
    Stats come out and always show life getting better. News makes money in making you think its not.
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  3. #73
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    Re: U.S. to begin to train and equip moderate Syria rebels

    Quote Originally Posted by US Conservative View Post
    Just that even a totalitarian state is terrified of ISIS.
    They are both totalitarian. Just that the Saudi's happen to be bigger compared to ISIS at the moment.
    Quote Originally Posted by poweRob View Post
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    Re: U.S. to begin to train and equip moderate Syria rebels

    Quote Originally Posted by DDD View Post
    If the whole world turns against them for instance.
    Fair point. But even then, it's one thing to say you are going to work with one another against a common foe, it's another thing to actually pull it off. Come to think about it, I think Saladin actually faced a similar situation. I believe he ended up murdering the guy and his family, and absorb their strength into his instead of working with them.

    Quote Originally Posted by DDD View Post
    The analogy fails to apply because championships are yearly campaigns, while our involvement in the east may be a lifetime involvement.
    Fair point I suppose, so let me be real then. We are going to consistently have a problem with democracies in the region as long as the majority of the population continues to support Islam, specifically the intolerant and oppressive strain that exists in the Middle East. Unless you see them hitting an Enlightenment Phase in the next few years, I doubt we'll ever see natural change.

    Quote Originally Posted by DDD View Post
    Historically, that has been a bad idea. A central organization is too powerful, it becomes a greater factor, and destroying it then can only bring the centralized organization down to the current state of affairs. So dealing with it then would cost more and the result would be to bring it down to this level and then some more. While we are here, why allow it to?
    I can certainly understand from a Historical perspective why it would seem that way, and you know how I love History and love to use it, but this is one of the rare instances where I don't think it applies. For one thing, especially from a military perspective, it is far easier to target a destroy a single entity with a standing army. I mean, more so than nation building, our military was meant to engage in large scale combat against an organized foe who has a single command and control. You see, we would then be fighting a war that plays to our strengths instead of to our weaknesses, which is what trying to invade the Middle East right now would entail.

    Also, there is something to be said for the shock value. Back in WW2, the MacArthur understood this very well and used the people's own belief system to make the transition much easier. This is why we kept the Emperor alive and never tried him for war crimes. He was a far more useful tool alive and dead. But more importantly, it did a lot to shock the Japanese people to be humbled. And more than anything, if Islam is to be contained, the people have to be humbled to the point where they no longer believe (as the majority of many Arab nations do) that it's okay to punish those that leave Islam and convert (or I suppose go Atheist). You wanna know the smartest thing MacArthur did during the entire war? This Photo:

    macarthurHirohito.jpg

    The image of MacArthur towering above the Emperor, a man who most Japanese had never seen before and most saw as a god-like figure, was very humbling. And regardless of if we end up having to deal with one enemy, or a dozen, the only way we end this scourge once and for all, is by breaking their will and making them know that violence will no longer be tolerated.

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    Re: U.S. to begin to train and equip moderate Syria rebels

    Quote Originally Posted by DDD View Post
    May the most secular anti Assad side win!
    Mornin D. Throwing money to these guys and training them is a waste of time and Money. But that's not to say they can't be used for bait!

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    Re: U.S. to begin to train and equip moderate Syria rebels

    Quote Originally Posted by Hamster Buddha View Post
    Fair point. But even then, it's one thing to say you are going to work with one another against a common foe, it's another thing to actually pull it off. Come to think about it, I think Saladin actually faced a similar situation. I believe he ended up murdering the guy and his family, and absorb their strength into his instead of working with them.
    It is a hypothetical scenario, in which case they may cooperate instead.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hamster Buddha View Post
    Fair point I suppose, so let me be real then. We are going to consistently have a problem with democracies in the region as long as the majority of the population continues to support Islam, specifically the intolerant and oppressive strain that exists in the Middle East. Unless you see them hitting an Enlightenment Phase in the next few years, I doubt we'll ever see natural change.
    Would like to enlighten you that the Renessaince period took ages to make enough people aware that there is life above religion in Europe. These things take time.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hamster Buddha View Post
    I can certainly understand from a Historical perspective why it would seem that way, and you know how I love History and love to use it, but this is one of the rare instances where I don't think it applies. For one thing, especially from a military perspective, it is far easier to target a destroy a single entity with a standing army. I mean, more so than nation building, our military was meant to engage in large scale combat against an organized foe who has a single command and control. You see, we would then be fighting a war that plays to our strengths instead of to our weaknesses, which is what trying to invade the Middle East right now would entail.
    Very risky to allow a centralized ME power to grow first, only to break it down back to this current state. Would cost a lot and would be wasted for they are already divided as they are today. Why allow them to grow?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hamster Buddha View Post
    Also, there is something to be said for the shock value. Back in WW2, the MacArthur understood this very well and used the people's own belief system to make the transition much easier. This is why we kept the Emperor alive and never tried him for war crimes. He was a far more useful tool alive and dead. But more importantly, it did a lot to shock the Japanese people to be humbled. And more than anything, if Islam is to be contained, the people have to be humbled to the point where they no longer believe (as the majority of many Arab nations do) that it's okay to punish those that leave Islam and convert (or I suppose go Atheist). You wanna know the smartest thing MacArthur did during the entire war? This Photo:

    macarthurHirohito.jpg

    The image of MacArthur towering above the Emperor, a man who most Japanese had never seen before and most saw as a god-like figure, was very humbling. And regardless of if we end up having to deal with one enemy, or a dozen, the only way we end this scourge once and for all, is by breaking their will and making them know that violence will no longer be tolerated.
    Different wars have different ways in dealing with them. There should be other ways to tackle the backward mentality that the religion supports over there.
    Quote Originally Posted by poweRob View Post
    Stats come out and always show life getting better. News makes money in making you think its not.
    The Republic of Dardania is the proper name for: http://www.debatepolitics.com/europe...ification.html

  7. #77
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    Re: U.S. to begin to train and equip moderate Syria rebels

    Quote Originally Posted by MMC View Post
    Mornin D. Throwing money to these guys and training them is a waste of time and Money. But that's not to say they can't be used for bait!
    Hay MMC

    You never know.

    Perhaps these will remain moderate or secular enough to do the job.
    Quote Originally Posted by poweRob View Post
    Stats come out and always show life getting better. News makes money in making you think its not.
    The Republic of Dardania is the proper name for: http://www.debatepolitics.com/europe...ification.html

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    Re: U.S. to begin to train and equip moderate Syria rebels

    Quote Originally Posted by Hamster Buddha View Post
    Saudi Arabia and ISIS would never be allies. One's Sunni and the other's Shia with all the baggage that entails. Part of the reason for the Conflict in Iraq is that you have the Sunni ISIS that is pushing through friendly Sunni territory, and not is being resisted by Shia Iraq that will be backed by the Sauds.

    Something major would have to shift for these two to work together.

    Mornin' HBuddha. <<<<< Hits Gong!

    The Saud are Sunni and ISIS is Sunni.....It's due to the Sunni in Iraq not resisting ISIS. Due to the Shia's Treatment of the Sunni after they were given Iraq to run.

    They wont work together with Baghdadi Bob telling the King of the Sauds. He no longer is in line for Ascension with Islam and their so called Prophet. Pretty much causing the Saud to tremble and fear. Considering it is Sunni.....that is making that known.

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    Re: U.S. to begin to train and equip moderate Syria rebels

    Quote Originally Posted by DDD View Post
    Hay MMC

    You never know.

    Perhaps these will remain moderate or secular enough to do the job.


    They don't have the numbers.....I only put up a couple links where they were switching to ISIS. Now the Rebels best fighters that were a brigade have joined ISIS. This leaves them with hardly any.

    Also al Nusra just went in and forced capitulation and took whatever they had.

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    Re: U.S. to begin to train and equip moderate Syria rebels

    Quote Originally Posted by Utility Man View Post
    See here:









    He should probably claim that, though its starting to be a stretch. Syria didnt aid or plan 911 afaik. And congress probably ought to at least refresh it once in a while.

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