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Thread: U.S. to begin to train and equip moderate Syria rebels

  1. #41
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    Re: U.S. to begin to train and equip moderate Syria rebels

    Quote Originally Posted by Unitedwestand13 View Post
    I find it tragic that we have to destroy ancient buildings.

    It is monte Cassino all over again.
    So do I, but to be fair-its the combatants that are occupying such buildings that would make that the case. What does it say of islamism that the west respects their religious and historical sites and hospitals more than they do?

    From a historical perspective I always cringe when I hear about these things but Islamism may be more destructive to islamic history than the west.

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    Re: U.S. to begin to train and equip moderate Syria rebels

    Quote Originally Posted by MMC View Post
    It appears BO still has not learned anything with these Rebel/Terrorists, huh?


    U.S. strategy against Islamic State hits major hurdles.....

    Senior U.S. military officers also privately warn that the so-called Syrian moderates that U.S. planners hope to recruit — opposition fighters without ties to the Islamic radicals — have been degraded by other factions and forces, including Assad's army, during the war.

    We're not going to be able to build that kind of credible force in enough time to make a difference," said a senior U.S. officer who is involved in military operations against the militants and who asked for anonymity because he was not authorized to speak publicly. "We've watched the moderate opposition dwindle and dwindle and now there's very little left."....snip~

    U.S. strategy against Islamic State hits major hurdles - LA Times


    1,000 Syrian rebels defect to Islamic State in sign it’s still strengthening
    McClatchy Washington Bureau July 8, 2014
    Read more here: GAZIANTEP, Turkey: 1,000 Syrian rebels defect to Islamic State in sign it’s still strengthening | Syria | McClatchy DC






    The Free Syrian Army was said to be a “moderate” and “secular” force, which was used as the rationale by U.S. officials to supply the opposition force with weapons and training. Sources told Homs, Syria-based Zaman Alwasl newspaper that several factions within the FSA, including Ahl Al Athar, Ibin al-Qa’im, and Aisha have pledged to support the Islamic State.

    The Obama administration has delivered weapons, supplies, and CIA-sponsored training to the Free Syrian Army. United States intelligence analysts estimate that the U.S. has had a hand in training as many as 20,000 FSA rebels. The U.S. reportedly provided the FSA with weapons such as rockets and TOW anti-tank missiles, which were supplied through back-channels in Qatar and Saudi Arabia......snip~

    US-Backed 'Moderate' Free Syrian Army Factions Join ISIS Terror Group - Breitbart


    U.S.-backed Syria rebels routed by fighters linked to al-Qaeda
    (Washington Post) - The Obama administration’s Syria strategy suffered a major setback Sunday after fighters linked to al-Qaeda routed U.S.-backed rebels from their main northern strongholds, capturing significant quantities of weaponry, triggering widespread defections and ending hopes that Washington will readily find Syrian partners in its war against the Islamic State.

    Moderate rebels who had been armed and trained by the United States either surrendered or defected to the extremists as the Jabhat al-Nusra group, affiliated with al-Qaeda, swept through the towns and villages the moderates controlled in the northern province of Idlib, in what appeared to be a concerted push to vanquish the moderate Free Syrian Army, according to rebel commanders, activists and analysts....snip~

    U.S.-backed Syria rebels routed by fighters linked to al-Qaeda - The Washington Post
    May the most secular anti Assad side win!
    Quote Originally Posted by poweRob View Post
    Stats come out and always show life getting better. News makes money in making you think its not.
    The Republic of Dardania is the proper name for: http://www.debatepolitics.com/europe...ification.html

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    Re: U.S. to begin to train and equip moderate Syria rebels

    Quote Originally Posted by Hamster Buddha View Post
    Which is the reason you'd have to take a scorched earth approach to the religion in the region. But even beyond that, Islam has become a danger even to those who practice it. And by that, I mean all the sectarian differences. In the scenario that we go in and acts as a true occupying power (we haven't really done this, instead opting to take a more hands off approach to internal politics). We broke Japan of Shintoism, we can do the same with Islam in the Middle East. They key would be we'd have to show a better way by providing rebuilding effort not seen since the Marshall Plan.

    Make no mistake, this will be the costliest endeavor in US History, and one which will have to have the cooperation of not just Europe and the US, but also other world powers affected by Islamic attacks such as Russia, China and even India. (as neither of those powers are going to be willing to sit back and allow NATO to carve up the Middle East without getting a cut). Again this solution isn't something that could be pulled off now of course, but only the worst comes to pass.
    I hope you are wrong about the scorched earth policy, but I fear you might be right.

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    Re: U.S. to begin to train and equip moderate Syria rebels

    Quote Originally Posted by DDD View Post
    May the most secular anti Assad side win!
    I believe that would be the FSA, but ironically Assad may be the most secular of the groups involved.

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    Re: U.S. to begin to train and equip moderate Syria rebels

    Quote Originally Posted by US Conservative View Post
    I believe that would be the FSA, but ironically Assad may be the most secular of the groups involved.
    If I could go back in time and share one thing with America, or it's leaders specifically, it would be this: We're better off with Ruthless Dictators who keep these people in line than with them ruling themselves. There's only been one exception to this statement; Morocco, and that's only because they chose to install a secular government. Everywhere else has only become more radicalized.

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    Re: U.S. to begin to train and equip moderate Syria rebels

    Quote Originally Posted by Hamster Buddha View Post
    If I could go back in time and share one thing with America, or it's leaders specifically, it would be this: We're better off with Ruthless Dictators who keep these people in line than with them ruling themselves. There's only been one exception to this statement; Morocco, and that's only because they chose to install a secular government. Everywhere else has only become more radicalized.
    Yes, but then we get to see the methods the dictators use to keep radicals in check. They are pretty inhumane. Further, I do not think that they can contain radicalism forever because such extreme measures also fuel radicalism. Sooner or later it could grass root and bring the dictator down and we do not get to influence them.

    Perhaps we have been bringing down dictators right at the time when intelligence analysis showed that that is going to happen? So a quick liberating intervention both posits us as the helper (used for later influenced) as well as actually help and liberate the people.
    Quote Originally Posted by poweRob View Post
    Stats come out and always show life getting better. News makes money in making you think its not.
    The Republic of Dardania is the proper name for: http://www.debatepolitics.com/europe...ification.html

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    Re: U.S. to begin to train and equip moderate Syria rebels

    Quote Originally Posted by Hamster Buddha View Post
    If I could go back in time and share one thing with America, or it's leaders specifically, it would be this: We're better off with Ruthless Dictators who keep these people in line than with them ruling themselves. There's only been one exception to this statement; Morocco, and that's only because they chose to install a secular government. Everywhere else has only become more radicalized.
    Well there have also been plenty of terrorists from morocco. France knows this.

    But this is a hard subject for me as a westerner-because to advocate such rule would be to deprive people of their own voice. Even if that means there will be more conflict.

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    Re: U.S. to begin to train and equip moderate Syria rebels

    Quote Originally Posted by Hamster Buddha View Post
    I'm pretty sure me and Conservative have been over this but no war in the history of mankind has been won through Air Power alone. At some point you have to move in and secure the locations on the ground with troops you can count on. And as has been so clearly demonstrated, local militias can't cut the mustard. The only ones with the capability to handle such a job are professional, western troops.
    No,

    Allied air force attacks combined with local troops can work. See how it worked in the Balkans as an example.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hamster Buddha View Post
    What ultimately we'll have to do is the same thing we did with Japan; and that is occupy the country and take down everything that is even connected with Islam, same as we did with the warrior cult in Japan.
    A very costly proposal. Costly both in money and in blood.
    Quote Originally Posted by poweRob View Post
    Stats come out and always show life getting better. News makes money in making you think its not.
    The Republic of Dardania is the proper name for: http://www.debatepolitics.com/europe...ification.html

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    Re: U.S. to begin to train and equip moderate Syria rebels

    Quote Originally Posted by DDD View Post
    Yes, but then we get to see the methods the dictators use to keep radicals in check. They are pretty inhumane. Further, I do not think that they can contain radicalism forever because such extreme measures also fuel radicalism. Sooner or later it could grass root and bring the dictator down and we do not get to influence them.

    Perhaps we have been bringing down dictators right at the time when intelligence analysis showed that that is going to happen? So a quick liberating intervention both posits us as the helper (used for later influenced) as well as actually help and liberate the people.
    The saudi's are very totalitarian and they are so terrified of ISIS they are building a heavily fortified and armed wall to keep them out. I dont think that will work. If the house of saud goes down it will be horrifically bloody.

  10. #50
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    Re: U.S. to begin to train and equip moderate Syria rebels

    Quote Originally Posted by US Conservative View Post
    Well there have also been plenty of terrorists from morocco. France knows this.

    But this is a hard subject for me as a westerner-because to advocate such rule would be to deprive people of their own voice. Even if that means there will be more conflict.
    There are terrorist from Morocco, but that comes more from the cancer that is within Islam today than any policies the state is enacting. I actually think that there's is a good model to work off of. The problem is that the infection may run so deep that eventually you have to deal with it.

    Quote Originally Posted by DDD View Post
    Yes, but then we get to see the methods the dictators use to keep radicals in check. They are pretty inhumane. Further, I do not think that they can contain radicalism forever because such extreme measures also fuel radicalism. Sooner or later it could grass root and bring the dictator down and we do not get to influence them.

    Perhaps we have been bringing down dictators right at the time when intelligence analysis showed that that is going to happen? So a quick liberating intervention both posits us as the helper (used for later influenced) as well as actually help and liberate the people.
    The problem is that this hasn't worked. I mean say what you will about Iraq, but the moment we took over, we were more than ready to hand over power to the Iraqis. And that just got blown up into a sectarian mess with Islam at the heart of it. Egypt ousted Mubarak, and what do the people do? They install the Muslim Brotherhood. We assist in the ousting in Lybia, and now that's a hot bed for Islamist. And Syria? Well, perhaps if we'd of kept our noses out of that, ISIS wouldn't of been a problem, especially of Saddam was still in power to prevent them from pushing as far in as they did. In every single circumstance we've given freedom to Muslims in the Middle East, it's blown up in our face (with the lone exception of Morocco).

    Could it of eventually blown up in our faces down the road? Maybe, but maybe not. Every year we get closer to not having to rely so heavily on ME oil. And once we finally kick that habit, we can seal off the ME and let the whole place burn itself down. At the very least, it wouldn't be our problem anymore, so long as we aren't letting them into Europe.

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