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Thread: McConnell: Senate Will 'Try to Pass' House Immigration Bill

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    Re: McConnell: Senate Will 'Try to Pass' House Immigration Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    The "leak" is only 60% (at most) at the border - many simply overstay their tourist, work or student visas. Even if we did stop all border jumpers (at considerable cost) that still means a net increase in illegals every year. If our congress critters succeed in making sealing the border (with verification) step one then there will never be a step two.
    Difficulty should never be a reason not to try.
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    Re: McConnell: Senate Will 'Try to Pass' House Immigration Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Difficulty should never be a reason not to try.
    Simplicity should not be the basis for any solution. Failing to 100% secure the border is not a reason (or even a good excuse) to simply accept 20 million current illegal aliens inside the country.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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    Re: McConnell: Senate Will 'Try to Pass' House Immigration Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    Simplicity should not be the basis for any solution. Failing to 100% secure the border is not a reason (or even a good excuse) to simply accept 20 million current illegal aliens inside the country.
    I agree, but, do you really trust "comprehensive" anything today? how many times do we need to be fooled before we say shame on us?
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

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    Re: McConnell: Senate Will 'Try to Pass' House Immigration Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    Even that requires physically checking each and every employer (and each of their employees), many of which use (or soon will use) 1099 labor or "temp agencies" to supply the labor. Fake IDs abound so who is guilty if Joe turns out to really have been Jose? When the local mill, store, farm or factory shuts down (to pay the ICE fine) then EVERYONE is screwed simply because Joe turned out to be Jose with a fake ID. Forcing the employer to become an unpaid ICE agent will not be the magic bullet that many expect.
    I'd rather money be spent where the action is. Everything you wrote is true, however, even tax cheats eventually get caught, so the same holds true for those who try to use false docs.

    The point of the E-Verify component is to protect the employers who have shown they exercised due diligence in screening employees. They don't become an unpaid ICE agent. They simply follow process and procedure and document that effort in the employees file. They way it is now, without recognizing an E-Verify type program as a national check and balance makes employers unpaid ICE agents. We are supposed to be able to identify identity theft, and forged documents. That's ridiculous. An E-Verify shows a check was made, clearance received, and papers in order.

    The point about employees being harmed is true today. What happens to honest law abiding employees when some of their workers get caught? Does not the entire work force potentially suffer because other employees are no longer there? That's one of the aspects that makes illegals all the worse, their complete disregard for the harm they could bring to the other people they work around.

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    Re: McConnell: Senate Will 'Try to Pass' House Immigration Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    I agree, but, do you really trust "comprehensive" anything today? how many times do we need to be fooled before we say shame on us?
    There is no need to include amnesty, just as there is no need to have a "secure the border first" serial plan. My point is that ANY plan must deal with those inside the US since not only is 100% border security is impossible but it only reduces the inflow by about 60%.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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    Re: McConnell: Senate Will 'Try to Pass' House Immigration Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    I'd rather money be spent where the action is. Everything you wrote is true, however, even tax cheats eventually get caught, so the same holds true for those who try to use false docs.

    The point of the E-Verify component is to protect the employers who have shown they exercised due diligence in screening employees. They don't become an unpaid ICE agent. They simply follow process and procedure and document that effort in the employees file. They way it is now, without recognizing an E-Verify type program as a national check and balance makes employers unpaid ICE agents. We are supposed to be able to identify identity theft, and forged documents. That's ridiculous. An E-Verify shows a check was made, clearance received, and papers in order.

    The point about employees being harmed is true today. What happens to honest law abiding employees when some of their workers get caught? Does not the entire work force potentially suffer because other employees are no longer there? That's one of the aspects that makes illegals all the worse, their complete disregard for the harm they could bring to the other people they work around.
    Show me ANY E-verify law that applies to every worker. Most of these feel good schemes apply only to large employers and, even then, apply only to new hires. We won't even check the IDs of those that send their kids to schools, get pulled over by the police or use the ER so why pretend that those working for "big" companies are the problem?

    Short off a biometric based, national ID system E-verify is next to useless. It can be part of a plan but it cannot be the plan.

    https://www.numbersusa.com/content/l...rify-laws.html
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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    Re: McConnell: Senate Will 'Try to Pass' House Immigration Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    There is no need to include amnesty, just as there is no need to have a "secure the border first" serial plan. My point is that ANY plan must deal with those inside the US since not only is 100% border security is impossible but it only reduces the inflow by about 60%.
    It just seems so defeatist to me to say, and dismiss out of hand attacking these issues one by one....Those inside the US aren't going anywhere, so if we get off the mindset of 'oh, it won't work anyway' and just get to doing it we might just find that surprisingly it does work...Like I said doing nothing is not a plan...But, if we start to put real measures in place, that word will spread that we are serious about tightening up border security, and that 60% number may just turn into 80% because of decreased flow....I see "comprehensive" as Washington speak these days for loading up bills with everything under the kitchen sink that have NOTHING to do with addressing this problem.
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

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