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Thread: Russia-backed separatists seize Donetsk airport in Ukraine

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    Russia-backed separatists seize Donetsk airport in Ukraine

    Well the fighting rages on in eastern Ukraine. It appears the world now has another McCoy/Hatfield feud on it's hands.

    Russia-backed separatists seize Donetsk airport in Ukraine | World news | The Guardian

    Russian-backed separatists announced that they have captured the shattered remains of the Donetsk airport terminal in eastern Ukraine and plan to claw back more territory, further dashing hopes for a lasting peace agreement.

    The airport, on the fringes of the rebel stronghold of Donetsk, has been at the centre of bitter battles since May. Control over it was split between the separatists and Ukrainian forces, who had held onto the main civilian terminal. Reduced to little more than a shell-strewn wreck, the building is of limited strategic importance but has great symbolic value.

    An AP reporter saw a rebel flag hoisted over that building Thursday, although fighting still appeared to be ongoing. Ukraine insisted government troops were holding their positions at the airport.

    Alexander Hug, deputy head of the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe monitoring mission to Ukraine, said rebel forces carried out artillery attacks from within residential areas.

    “These attacks ... attract counter-fire from positions opposite and other directions, which leads unfortunately to repeated civilian casualties and damage for infrastructure,” Hug said.

    The rebel leader in Donetsk, Alexander Zakharchenko, said the separatist offensive would continue and its goal was to recapture all territory lost to government forces last year.

    “Let our countrymen hear this: We will not just give up our land. We will either take it back peacefully, or like that,” Zakharchenko said, nodding his head toward the sound of explosions coming from the direction of the airport.


    If the separatists do advance further, that would undermine the chances of resurrecting a September ceasefire that laid out specific demarcation lines between the opposing sides.

    By disregarding that agreement, the rebels appear to have defied Moscow’s public backing of the peace deal.

    The likelihood of any further negotiations looks compromised against the backdrop of continued unrest.

    Separatist leaders in the regions of Donetsk and Luhansk have declined to attend talks with Ukraine and Russia expected to take place Friday in Minsk, the capital of Belarus. They have instead dispatched envoys and said they will refuse to take part in more talks unless specific results are achieved.

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    Re: Russia-backed separatists seize Donetsk airport in Ukraine

    Ukraine was so yesterday, who the hell hears or talks about them anymore?

    Looks like they'll just be in a state of perpetual war with the guerrila seperatists so everyone has moved on.
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    Re: Russia-backed separatists seize Donetsk airport in Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by Luftwaffe View Post
    Ukraine was so yesterday, who the hell hears or talks about them anymore?
    Perhaps it is yesterday to the general public in the US, but you can be certain, it is anything but to Obama and Putin.

    Quote Originally Posted by Luftwaffe View Post
    Looks like they'll just be in a state of perpetual war with the guerrila seperatists so everyone has moved on.
    Well it does appear they will be at it for a while. But I think it is likely that at some point, the focus will return.

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    Re: Russia-backed separatists seize Donetsk airport in Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by Luftwaffe View Post
    .......
    Looks like they'll just be in a state of perpetual war with the guerrila seperatists so everyone has moved on.
    Pity the EU does not guaranty Peace in Europe as the EU politicians have been promising their peoples and justifying their EU project: Perpetual war and guerrilla separatists in Europe! My God! And the heads of almost every European government goes to demonstrate in the Paris streets because 14 or so are killed by criminal fanatics. Boy, do they have an act together.

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    Re: Russia-backed separatists seize Donetsk airport in Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by joG View Post
    Pity the EU does not guaranty Peace in Europe as the EU politicians have been promising their peoples and justifying their EU project: Perpetual war and guerrilla separatists in Europe! My God! And the heads of almost every European government goes to demonstrate in the Paris streets because 14 or so are killed by criminal fanatics. Boy, do they have an act together.
    Yeah the EU is hanging in by the skin of its teeth. If Greece exits the EU and Germany's economy goes south, the whole thing my fall apart.

    Greece has 'negative credit implications' for Europe


    The ongoing political turmoil in Greece in the run up to a general election has not only increased the risk of a Greek exit from the euro zone, but could also have negative credit implications for other European countries, ratings agency Moody's warned.

    In a note published Wednesday, Moody's Investor Service conceded that the likelihood of Greece leaving the currency union was lower than it was during the peak of the region's debt crisis of 2012 and remains "relatively unlikely." But it warned that if it were to happen -- "a Greek exit today would likely trigger renewed recession in the remaining euro area."

    "Any exit from the single currency would be a defining moment for the euro: it would show that the monetary union is divisible, not irreversible," Colin Ellis, Moody's chief credit officer, EMEA, wrote in the report.

    Greece is due to hold a snap general election on 25 January amid ongoing political uncertainty in the country, which Moody's said "increased the risk of a Greek exit from the euro area."

    Anti-austerity party Syriza's lead in the polls has rekindled concerns around this scenario. The left-wing party has always said that it would renegotiate the terms of Greece's two international bailouts amounting to 240 billion euros which required the Greek government to implement tough austerity measures and spending cuts.

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    Re: Russia-backed separatists seize Donetsk airport in Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    Yeah the EU is hanging in by the skin of its teeth. If Greece exits the EU and Germany's economy goes south, the whole thing my fall apart.

    Greece has 'negative credit implications' for Europe
    From looking at the past I would venture that believing the Euro is irreversible is putting more trust in government and the State, than is wise. The size of economic imbalance is huge and building fast. How powerful those forces are is evident in Switzerland's having to give up its fixed rate, taking the considerable loss and accepting the rapid decline in competitiveness of the whole economy. This is the situation underlying the Euro between the various Euroland members. You just cannot see it under the blanket the EZB has spread out.

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    Re: Russia-backed separatists seize Donetsk airport in Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by joG View Post
    From looking at the past I would venture that believing the Euro is irreversible is putting more trust in government and the State, than is wise. The size of economic imbalance is huge and building fast. How powerful those forces are is evident in Switzerland's having to give up its fixed rate, taking the considerable loss and accepting the rapid decline in competitiveness of the whole economy. This is the situation underlying the Euro between the various Euroland members. You just cannot see it under the blanket the EZB has spread out.
    You have correctly identified one of the largest problems that the Euro project faces. That imbalance is just too great to be sustained. You can't have a union of such diverse nations and have Germany being so far distant from countries like Greece, in terms of economic power and expect such a relationship to last. It is just too unequal. Either they will have to do something to correct that inequality or the members will be forced to go their separate ways. What is going on in Greece cannot continue indefinitely, unless the Greek government starts to very, very cruelly repress people and I don't think they can get away with that at this point in history. Some put forward a couple of years ago that it would be better for Greece to exit and get it over with. If they had done that, though painful, they might be in a better position now than they are today. Germany required too much of Greece in order to get the bailout in my opinion. As far as I can see, things have not gotten any better for the people of Greece.

    Another problem is that there is another trend that is getting stronger and stronger throughout Europe that is troubling for the Euro project. That is ethnic nationalism. There are substantial amounts of people with those views in the various countries who simply feel that they want no part of the Euro project. If fact that is what troubles people about the elections in Greece right now. They know that in the background in Greece, there is an ultra nationalist group that despises Merkel and the whole Euro project. If I recall correctly, they feel that people like Merkel are the ones actually responsible for the problems that Greece is experiencing. Some of them are violent.

    Therefore these two things combined form a very combustible mixture that I think will explode and result in the end of the Euro project.

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    Re: Russia-backed separatists seize Donetsk airport in Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by Luftwaffe View Post
    Ukraine was so yesterday, who the hell hears or talks about them anymore?

    Looks like they'll just be in a state of perpetual war with the guerrila seperatists so everyone has moved on.


    What you mean is that the US media isn't reporting it anymore. The fighting is heavy as hell and getting heavier. Donetsk's tower fell (literally) just a few days ago. Are you even aware of the fighting there?

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    Re: Russia-backed separatists seize Donetsk airport in Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    You have correctly identified one of the largest problems that the Euro project faces. That imbalance is just too great to be sustained. You can't have a union of such diverse nations and have Germany being so far distant from countries like Greece, in terms of economic power and expect such a relationship to last. It is just too unequal. Either they will have to do something to correct that inequality or the members will be forced to go their separate ways. What is going on in Greece cannot continue indefinitely, unless the Greek government starts to very, very cruelly repress people and I don't think they can get away with that at this point in history. Some put forward a couple of years ago that it would be better for Greece to exit and get it over with. If they had done that, though painful, they might be in a better position now than they are today. Germany required too much of Greece in order to get the bailout in my opinion. As far as I can see, things have not gotten any better for the people of Greece.

    Another problem is that there is another trend that is getting stronger and stronger throughout Europe that is troubling for the Euro project. That is ethnic nationalism. There are substantial amounts of people with those views in the various countries who simply feel that they want no part of the Euro project. If fact that is what troubles people about the elections in Greece right now. They know that in the background in Greece, there is an ultra nationalist group that despises Merkel and the whole Euro project. If I recall correctly, they feel that people like Merkel are the ones actually responsible for the problems that Greece is experiencing. Some of them are violent.

    Therefore these two things combined form a very combustible mixture that I think will explode and result in the end of the Euro project.
    This is generally true-unless all sides benefit eventually nations will drop out or be kicked out. At the root of this is a problem with entitlement. Greeks (my father was born and raised there) display this prominently-as do other nations. They want artificially high wages, an unrealistic retirement, etc when the math simply does not add up-it never did but there were more people and more businesses there prior-many of these nations can't even maintain a population so a ponzi scheme will fail there earlier than it would elsewhere.

    Theres so much marxist fail in europe even today-but the bill is coming due, and europeans will try to do what they can to avoid facing the music-but that days will still come. On top of that, I am for decreasing our military presence in europe, let those nations defend themselves for once-the US allowed them to act as spoiled children by protecting them. The Pax Americana wont last there in any case-and I expect the artifact of peace to dissolve there soon enough. The Russians (at least for now-but who knows) are destabilizing the region and will strain alliances further. There will be blood, frankly as there always has. I heard the other day that out of the last 3000 years in europe, its only been something like 250 years total of peace.

    Economic strain, disputes over resources, and a militarily destabilizing region is a tinder box. Frankly Ukraine might just be the start of what we will see elsewhere. Multinational alliances will revert to nationalism, and possibly into groups fighting within nations. Its a sad situation and Im quite happy that the US is relatively stable compared to there. Of course we have our own problems.

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    Re: Russia-backed separatists seize Donetsk airport in Ukraine

    The government's hold on portions of the Donetsk airport (Sergei Prokofiev International Airport) has always been tenuous as the airport in encircled. It is bit reminiscent of Stalingrad as rebels and govt. forces hold different floors in the same buildings. Government soldiers at the airport (called the "cyborgs" in Ukraine) have been entrenched in subterranean rooms and underground tunnels. If the rebels have indeed captured the entire airport, it would constitute an undeniable violation of the Minsk Protocol signed by both sides and Russia on 5 September 2014.

    There have been reports that the Buratino (TOS/TOC-1) MLRS has been sighted in rebel territories. Mounted on a T-72 tank chassis, the Buratino 24-barrel MLRS fires thermobaric rockets and was used in Afghanistan and Chechnya. Such a platform could only have come from Russia since it has never been in Ukraine's arsenal.


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