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Thread: Russia-backed separatists seize Donetsk airport in Ukraine

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    Re: Russia-backed separatists seize Donetsk airport in Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by austrianecon View Post
    I
    If I ever start a rebellion, please be my opposition. Look at modern campaigns against insurgencies. Airports are vital in these types of conflicts, as it allows you to be more mobile. A convoy of vehicles are sitting ducks.
    Sitting ducks for what?

    The Ukrainian airforce, which has a limited number of fully operational aircraft to start with has not flown any combat missions for months after the Russians / seperatists shot down numerous planes using increasingly sophisticated SAMS. Likewise, there is always the possibility of direct support from the Russian airforce.

    Though there have been some pro Ukrainian partisan attacks on Russian / Seperatist connvoys, the loses trying to capture the airport have been far more than loses from the occasional partisan attack. As the area is largely pro Russian (though not as fervently as Putin claims), the ability of the Ukrainians to mount continuous attacks against seperatist convoys are limited.

    Likewise, even if the Ukrainians control and then bulldoze the landing strips, no Ukrainian cargo planes are going to land there. Not only do the Ukrainians have a very limited number of flying aircraft, but landing aircraft would be very vulnerable to seperatist sams fired from Donetsk suburbs. Earlier, the Ukrainians lost a plane and 50 men to sams while trying to reinforce Lugansk airport.

    The airport is purely symbolic. As another poster stated, "How much of a "nation" do you have if you dont, at least symbolically, control in the international airport in your capital city?". Also, it is not just the airport,but the surrounding suburbs. The Ukrainians control several Donetsk suburbs. Evidently, Ukrainian forward positions can almost be seen from the roof of the DPR "Parliament" buildings- another potent symbol against the viability of a quasi state.
    Last edited by Cryptic; 01-19-15 at 10:55 AM.

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    Re: Russia-backed separatists seize Donetsk airport in Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    You have correctly identified one of the largest problems that the Euro project faces. That imbalance is just too great to be sustained. You can't have a union of such diverse nations and have Germany being so far distant from countries like Greece, in terms of economic power and expect such a relationship to last. It is just too unequal. Either they will have to do something to correct that inequality or the members will be forced to go their separate ways. What is going on in Greece cannot continue indefinitely, unless the Greek government starts to very, very cruelly repress people and I don't think they can get away with that at this point in history. Some put forward a couple of years ago that it would be better for Greece to exit and get it over with. If they had done that, though painful, they might be in a better position now than they are today. Germany required too much of Greece in order to get the bailout in my opinion. As far as I can see, things have not gotten any better for the people of Greece.

    Another problem is that there is another trend that is getting stronger and stronger throughout Europe that is troubling for the Euro project. That is ethnic nationalism. There are substantial amounts of people with those views in the various countries who simply feel that they want no part of the Euro project. If fact that is what troubles people about the elections in Greece right now. They know that in the background in Greece, there is an ultra nationalist group that despises Merkel and the whole Euro project. If I recall correctly, they feel that people like Merkel are the ones actually responsible for the problems that Greece is experiencing. Some of them are violent.

    Therefore these two things combined form a very combustible mixture that I think will explode and result in the end of the Euro project.
    This Union of Diverse Nations, as you say, are being controlled by the ECB, European Central Bank. The USA is controlled by the Federal Reserve and Britain by the Bank of England. I didn't notice anyone, anywhere voting to be run by banks. That is CORPORATE control because the banks are CORPORATE. That is what I construe all the New World Order talk to reflect. The World is in a banking war at this time and that is why Russia, China, India, Venezuela, Brazil, and some other Nations are organizing Banking alternatives. They want Banks with whom they can do business with and not be controlled by. We, the USA, are on teh wrong side of history in this matter because we are leading the charge to establish a Bank controlled Empire instead of world policy that benefits all. Why do you think the USA has the 99.99% and the .01% and the .01% is becoming more wealthy each day? Somebody got poorer simultaneously. Guess who?

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    Re: Russia-backed separatists seize Donetsk airport in Ukraine

    Apparently yesterday was quite bad. Civilians are again withdrawing from the city.

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    Re: Russia-backed separatists seize Donetsk airport in Ukraine

    You would think that the bankrupt junta in Kiev would not want to waste
    billions of dollars attacking their own people. Given any other option this
    seems ignorant and fascist. The peoples of Lughansk and Donetsk are
    not attacking Ukraine/Kiev and they don't seem to be threatening any
    such activity. They just want some independence. I realize that the USA
    wants to force Russia to send in troops to help the rebels for a public
    relations victory, but lots of people will die for that stupid objective. We
    have initiated an economic war against Russia worldwide and we may
    tegret that. We are forcing powerful Nations that we don't control to
    choose sides in a Corporate/Banking War. The USA, EU and Japan do
    control about 60% of World capital, but only a small portion of land and
    resources. Oil prices are resulting in $10 billion of USA dollars per day
    surplus because of the reduced demand for US Petrodollars. Energy
    prices drop and since energy is the underlying cost of everything, some
    deflation of all prices will follow. These Central Banks that want to control
    Ukraine have an agenda and it isn't freedom and democracy and wherever
    banks stir the pot, wars follow, or are part of the plan. The plan is to cost
    Russia money because their checks get cashed and they cannot just
    write/print money like the USA does. Petrodollars were like checks that
    were never cashed, but change is imminent.

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    Re: Russia-backed separatists seize Donetsk airport in Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by Cryptic View Post
    Sitting ducks for what?
    Ambushes, you know the US military dealt with in Iraq and Afghanistan. Cities and Hilly/Mountainous areas also give advantage for ambushes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cryptic View Post
    The Ukrainian airforce, which has a limited number of fully operational aircraft to start with has not flown any combat missions for months after the Russians / seperatists shot down numerous planes using increasingly sophisticated SAMS. Likewise, there is always the possibility of direct support from the Russian airforce.
    Ukrainian has received jamming ability from EU/US over the last view months. So SAMs become almost useless, if used correctly.


    Quote Originally Posted by Cryptic View Post
    The airport is purely symbolic. As another poster stated, "How much of a "nation" do you have if you dont, at least symbolically, control in the international airport in your capital city?". Also, it is not just the airport,but the surrounding suburbs. The Ukrainians control several Donetsk suburbs. Evidently, Ukrainian forward positions can almost be seen from the roof of the DPR "Parliament" buildings- another potent symbol against the viability of a quasi state.
    It's not symbolic, you have the only two roads in to Donetsk which aren't "100%" controlled by separatist that run by the airport in Pisky and Spartak. Everything else is a no go for entering the city. UA loses Pisky and Spartak, you can kiss Ukraine ability to stop separatist pushing back up to Slovyansk and pushing to Mariupol. If that happens, Ukraine is gonna be on the back foot like they were in July - August. So it's damn key to holding the line.
    Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats. It is inaccurate to say that I hate everything. I am strongly in favor of common sense, common honesty, and common decency. This makes me forever ineligible for public office. H.L Mencken

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    Re: Russia-backed separatists seize Donetsk airport in Ukraine

    Breaking: Reuters ghost battalions conquer Russia!

    For a few hundred million people, Petro Poroshenko’s latest offensive in the east of Ukraine crushed the separatist defenders at Donetsk airport. Reuters readers now fully expect, all of Mother Russia to fall beneath the Ukrainian onslaught.

    For those who may not believe it, we have no less than five Reuters correspondents to testify. Surely, the hundreds of stories being read in America and Britain today, are ample proof Putin’s Russia and the Donbass rebels are on the run now. Well, all except for one detail, that is. Sergey Prokofiev International Airport is fully in the hands of the Donetsk People’s Republic.

    Mis-reporting of wartime events is not so uncommon, and this Reuters story would not be so bad if someone in charge cared enough about accurate information to amend it. But no one does. It took 5 people to make the story, all 691 words of it, but not one writer or editor took the time to verify facts. Natalia Zinets and Lina Kushch apparently penned the news bit for Yahoo News and a few hundred others to pick up. They’re apparently on the ground in Kiev someplace, and their collaboration with Jason Bush in Moscow, along with and Pavel Polityuk, and with something (I know not what) added by Alessandra Prentice, if sheer numbers ever impress for such stories. And too, all that reporting expertise for this the latest “story” in a series edited by Ukraine bureau chief Richard Balmforth and Reuters’ regional editor Tom Heneghan from Paris, it’s astounding for a writer who types 700 words in 20 minutes with more accuracy.

    When I saw this story yesterday, I had no idea who these people even where. I was certainly astounded by the news Donetsk airport had fallen, especially since my friend and colleague Graham Phillips was almost simultaneously streaming images and video asking; “Where are the Ukrainians?” Graham, you see, he’s been imprisoned, shot at, captured, tossed around, and banned and banished from Kiev, all since he began reporting the wrong story. Excuse me, but there’s no way to remain without snideness or cynicism, not given all the bull**** from Reuters and the like. But misinforming, like I said, is not so unusual. What is unusual is when reporters or news outlets are told there is evidence and reporting to suggest inaccuracy, and no one does anything about it. This is the case so far with Reuters, and with Bloomberg. Both outlets ran with this version of reality, and I contacted both to offer up imagery (neither had) and testimony, neither media outlet took the time to gather.

    - See more at: Breaking: Reuters ghost battalions conquer Russia!

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    Re: Russia-backed separatists seize Donetsk airport in Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by MrFirst View Post
    Breaking: Reuters ghost battalions conquer Russia!

    For aWhen I saw this story yesterday, I had no idea who these people even where. I was certainly astounded by the news Donetsk airport had fallen, especially since my friend and colleague Graham Phillips was almost simultaneously streaming images and video asking; “Where are the Ukrainians?” Graham, you see, he’s been imprisoned, shot at, captured, tossed around, and banned and banished from Kiev, all since he began reporting the wrong story. Excuse me, but there’s no way to remain without snideness or cynicism, not given all the bull**** from Reuters and the like. But misinforming, like I said, is not so unusual. What is unusual is when reporters or news outlets are told there is evidence and reporting to suggest inaccuracy, and no one does anything about it. This is the case so far with Reuters, and with Bloomberg. Both outlets ran with this version of reality, and I contacted both to offer up imagery (neither had) and testimony, neither media outlet took the time to gather.

    Graham Phillips? Whoever wrote this article has been watching way too much Russian State TV. Graham Phillips recently reported from a partially demolished super market while claiming he was reporting from the Donestk airport and that he was documenting the seperatist "victory".

    The reason why there were no Ukrainians there and for that matter no Russians, and no russo Ukrainians is that the market is probably the same market that was looted by seperatists back in the summer of 2014. After it was looted, there is is nothing of value in the store. Not surprisingly, there are no people there either.

    Russian propaganda: Russia Today propagandist Graham Phillips passes off pictures from a supermarket as taken in the airport. PHOTO - army, Russian Army, propaganda, Russia, Media, terrorism, Ukraine, lies, Donetsk airport, Russian Aggression Against

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    Re: Russia-backed separatists seize Donetsk airport in Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by Cryptic View Post
    Graham Phillips? Whoever wrote this article has been watching way too much Russian State TV. Graham Phillips recently reported from a partially demolished super market while claiming he was reporting from the Donestk airport and that he was documenting the seperatist "victory".

    The reason why there were no Ukrainians there and for that matter no Russians, and no russo Ukrainians is that the market is probably the same market that was looted by seperatists back in the summer of 2014. After it was looted, there is is nothing of value in the store. Not surprisingly, there are no people there either.

    Russian propaganda: Russia Today propagandist Graham Phillips passes off pictures from a supermarket as taken in the airport. PHOTO - army, Russian Army, propaganda, Russia, Media, terrorism, Ukraine, lies, Donetsk airport, Russian Aggression Against
    Whoever wrote this reply, yes the one above, has been reading too much censor.net, and other similar sources.

    Grahams twt in order of their appearance on Jan 18, you are free to follow him on twt and see it for yourself:
    * I take a walk round the territory of Donetsk airport today to check out the 'Ukrainian invasion'. with @PLnewstoday
    * The Metro supermarket next to Donetsk airport today. Video to come. No sign of any Ukraine forces on the territory. (showing the first two pics that you can see in the article)
    * Donetsk airport territory today. Where are the Ukrainians? Nowhere near. (showing the fourth pic from the article)
    * Donetsk airport new terminal - no storm going on there, no Ukrainian takeover. Just being shelled. (showing the third pic from the article)

    Btw. You posting censor.net to "debunk ebil Russian propaganda" is just absolutely hilarious, as censor.net is one of the main fake/propaganda producers in this conflict.


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    Re: Russia-backed separatists seize Donetsk airport in Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by austrianecon View Post
    It's not symbolic, you have the only two roads in to Donetsk which aren't "100%" controlled by separatist that run by the airport in Pisky and Spartak. Everything else is a no go for entering the city. UA loses Pisky and Spartak, you can kiss Ukraine ability to stop separatist pushing back up to Slovyansk and pushing to Mariupol. If that happens, Ukraine is gonna be on the back foot like they were in July - August. So it's damn key to holding the line.
    I dont think a Ukrainian victory at the airport would lead to the loss of anything besides the airport. Mariupol and other Ukrianian held towns can be supplied by road networks further west. Likewise, the seperatists have been trying to take the airport for months. Despite an awful lot of material support and reinforcements (according to the Ukrainians, the reinforcements have included not just mercenaries and volunteers, but Russian regulars as well) they still have not taken it.

    Instead, they seem to have gradually lost control of more territory in the area. As a result, I dont think they will be mounting offensives against entire cities anytime soon- unless the Russians send in entire Brigades again.

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    Re: Russia-backed separatists seize Donetsk airport in Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by Cryptic View Post
    I dont think a Ukrainian victory at the airport would lead to the loss of anything besides the airport. Mariupol and other Ukrianian held towns can be supplied by road networks further west. Likewise, the seperatists have been trying to take the airport for months. Despite an awful lot of material support and reinforcements (according to the Ukrainians, the reinforcements have included not just mercenaries and volunteers, but Russian regulars as well) they still have not taken it.

    Instead, they seem to have gradually lost control of more territory in the area. As a result, I dont think they will be mounting offensives against entire cities anytime soon- unless the Russians send in entire Brigades again.
    The blue - What?!?

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