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Thread: Minimum Wage Hikes Reduced Employment of Low-Skilled Workers

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    Re: Minimum Wage Hikes Reduced Employment of Low-Skilled Workers

    Quote Originally Posted by DA60 View Post
    You do not hire people just on need. If that was the case, then pay would be irrelevant.

    And your company has not raised prices for probably one of two reasons. a) they do not think they can because their customers will not bear it; or b) your comapnies profit margin was so great that they have no need to raise prices.

    But one thing is 100% for certain - all other things being equal, your company is now making less money then iot used to assuming they are paying their people more money with zero increase in productivity. That is a fact.

    Just because they have not yet raised prices does not mean they do not want to or will not soon be forced to. It just means they have not yet.

    Nothing is free in business. If you raise costs then you have to raise prices or you will lower profit. Period.
    This is 100% accurate. And I fail to see a problem with it. The bottom line is, companies are NOT going to do what is best for the overall economy, that's not their job. If my company could, it would get rid of ALL of it's workers entirely, even if we all only made .01 cents per hour. Why? Because it would be more profitable for them to do so. Assuming that most companies operate with this mindset, it becomes readily apparent that doing what is best for the company, is not really doing what is best for the company. Because companies need customers. Customers need jobs that pay enough for them to have money to burn. It would be nice if all companies were ran by people smart enough to realize this, but they are not. They are governed by rules set out by people who see said companies as nothing more than a payday, either now, or in the not so distant future. As such, action needs be taken to ensure the security and health of our economy, lest we all sink on the same boat.
    Quote Originally Posted by calamity View Post
    Reports indicate that everyone knew he was hauling a bunch of guns up there. But, since you brought it up, there's something which should be illegal: guns that breakdown.

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    Re: Minimum Wage Hikes Reduced Employment of Low-Skilled Workers

    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    Sounds to me that you're one of the few that actually DO pay their employees less than they're worth unless the government demands they give them a raise.
    Most retail companies are the same, for all intents and purposes. ESPECIALLY ones that are owned by private equity firms.

    Let's explore the idea of paying an employee less than they are worth. Define worth, so we can both operate on the same understanding? I think of worth as beings...the amount another person values something. As such, almost ALL companies who employ people pay said employees less than their worth, else they would not employ them. The best of companies will only ever pay people CLOSE to their worth. If they pay them exactly what they are worth, or more...profits suffer. In the end, a company is going to pay it's employees as little as they can, and still retain employees. With our current population to jobs ratio, that ends up being quite little for most people...minimum wage. Because there is a greater supply of labor, than there is demand for that labor. Based on that truth, should we just shrug our shoulders and say "That's capitalism, baby!" And offer a tip about making oneself more valuable to prospective employers? Or should we take action to ensure the current and future health of our overall economy? We're ALL linked...the wealthiest down to the poorest...all of our fates are wound up together...the poorest's actions affects the wealthiest, and vice versa.
    Quote Originally Posted by calamity View Post
    Reports indicate that everyone knew he was hauling a bunch of guns up there. But, since you brought it up, there's something which should be illegal: guns that breakdown.

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    Re: Minimum Wage Hikes Reduced Employment of Low-Skilled Workers

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    Training new employees is a very large expense too tho. So for now, it probably came out even. But long term? Your company may have to increase prices. Just a thought.
    Nah, it won't. Our most direct competitor, a VERY successful company called Costco, is ran by a man who understands that a company can only be as good, can only be as well off, as it's customers, and through them, it's employees. They pay their employees FAR above minimum wage, FAR above what BJ's pays, but keeps it's prices right at what BJ's has...how does it do this? Because it's run by a man who doesn't feel the need to make 10 million or more per year, with a bunch of other people beneath him who need 5 million per year, and so on.

    THOSE are really the only casualties when a company becomes "less profitable"...the few who make 700 times more than the many within companies such as these. So when you engage in arguments like this, just remember who it is that you are arguing for, WHAT it is that you are arguing for them FOR.
    Quote Originally Posted by calamity View Post
    Reports indicate that everyone knew he was hauling a bunch of guns up there. But, since you brought it up, there's something which should be illegal: guns that breakdown.

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    Re: Minimum Wage Hikes Reduced Employment of Low-Skilled Workers

    Quote Originally Posted by KevinKohler View Post
    Most retail companies are the same, for all intents and purposes. ESPECIALLY ones that are owned by private equity firms.

    Let's explore the idea of paying an employee less than they are worth. Define worth, so we can both operate on the same understanding? I think of worth as beings...the amount another person values something. As such, almost ALL companies who employ people pay said employees less than their worth, else they would not employ them. The best of companies will only ever pay people CLOSE to their worth. If they pay them exactly what they are worth, or more...profits suffer. In the end, a company is going to pay it's employees as little as they can, and still retain employees. With our current population to jobs ratio, that ends up being quite little for most people...minimum wage. Because there is a greater supply of labor, than there is demand for that labor. Based on that truth, should we just shrug our shoulders and say "That's capitalism, baby!" And offer a tip about making oneself more valuable to prospective employers? Or should we take action to ensure the current and future health of our overall economy? We're ALL linked...the wealthiest down to the poorest...all of our fates are wound up together...the poorest's actions affects the wealthiest, and vice versa.
    The price of a deck screw isn't dependent on the size and grandeur of the deck, Kevin. And the price of the hourly wage for a security guard doesn't change because it's the big mall instead of the strip mall. If you want to know what you're worth, go out and find out what's the most anyone will pay you for the skills you have. That's what your skills are worth. You don't have to like reality but you do have to live in it whether you like it or not or accept it or not.
    You can't reason anyone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into in the first place.

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    Re: Minimum Wage Hikes Reduced Employment of Low-Skilled Workers

    Quote Originally Posted by KevinKohler View Post
    Nah, it won't. Our most direct competitor, a VERY successful company called Costco, is ran by a man who understands that a company can only be as good, can only be as well off, as it's customers, and through them, it's employees. They pay their employees FAR above minimum wage, FAR above what BJ's pays, but keeps it's prices right at what BJ's has...how does it do this? Because it's run by a man who doesn't feel the need to make 10 million or more per year, with a bunch of other people beneath him who need 5 million per year, and so on.

    THOSE are really the only casualties when a company becomes "less profitable"...the few who make 700 times more than the many within companies such as these. So when you engage in arguments like this, just remember who it is that you are arguing for, WHAT it is that you are arguing for them FOR.
    Costco pays it's employees more and, therefore, they get the first choice of employees. That's where the best employees are going to go. That's their business model and if you want more, your best bet would be to raise your game enough to get hired by them instead of complaining that BJ's doesn't pay as much.
    You can't reason anyone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into in the first place.

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    Re: Minimum Wage Hikes Reduced Employment of Low-Skilled Workers

    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    Costco pays it's employees more and, therefore, they get the first choice of employees. That's where the best employees are going to go. That's their business model and if you want more, your best bet would be to raise your game enough to get hired by them instead of complaining that BJ's doesn't pay as much.
    Failure to address the actual point is duly noted.


    As for Costco having better employees....that's laughable. That's saying that anywhere there is a Costco, there must be superior employees, lol. Your model only works if there is a Costco in every single town, waiting to employ the best of the best of each town. Otherwise, you are forced to admit that a lot of times, employees are stuck working for the employers that are accessible to them. Oh sure, you can say that we should all move to where the jobs are, or some other laughable conservative meme. Truth is, if we applied those silly conservative memes on a national scale, our entire way of life would collapse within a fortnight. This is why people tend to say things like "micro economic solutions don't work on a macro economic scale".
    Quote Originally Posted by calamity View Post
    Reports indicate that everyone knew he was hauling a bunch of guns up there. But, since you brought it up, there's something which should be illegal: guns that breakdown.

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    Re: Minimum Wage Hikes Reduced Employment of Low-Skilled Workers

    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    The price of a deck screw isn't dependent on the size and grandeur of the deck, Kevin. And the price of the hourly wage for a security guard doesn't change because it's the big mall instead of the strip mall. If you want to know what you're worth, go out and find out what's the most anyone will pay you for the skills you have. That's what your skills are worth. You don't have to like reality but you do have to live in it whether you like it or not or accept it or not.
    Actually, you're dead wrong. A larger structure by definition requires different materials to build, than a smaller counterpart.

    And pay absolutely fluctuates from type of place to type of place, for the same job.

    The GM of a Bed Bath and Beyond is going get paid nothing CLOSE to what the GM of a BJ's does. Even though they do the same job, for all intents and purposes.

    Scale changes everything. As for finding out what I'm worth, it depends on what I'm doing. You see, people aren't paying for ME, they're paying for a service I provide. Be that professional photography, restaurant management, or HR/Efficiency advice. They don't value ME. They value the job they need done, and whatever criteria they need met within that job. So the question isn't so much what I'M worth, it's what the job any given employer needs done is worth to them.
    Quote Originally Posted by calamity View Post
    Reports indicate that everyone knew he was hauling a bunch of guns up there. But, since you brought it up, there's something which should be illegal: guns that breakdown.

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    Minimum Wage Hikes Reduced Employment of Low-Skilled Workers

    Quote Originally Posted by KevinKohler View Post
    Actually, you're dead wrong. A larger structure by definition requires different materials to build, than a smaller counterpart.
    Same screw = same price. What you build with it is irrelevant. You are arguing DIFFERENT screw, different price. If you need better screws, you pay what you must for better screws.

    And pay absolutely fluctuates from type of place to type of place, for the same job.
    It CAN but it's not necessarily true. You pay what you must to get the QUALITY you need or want to attract for your business model.

    The GM of a Bed Bath and Beyond is going get paid nothing CLOSE to what the GM of a BJ's does. Even though they do the same job, for all intents and purposes.
    It isn't the same job. The different organizations have different strategies and their pay structures are part of that strategy.

    A company pays what it needs for the quality of help it wants to attract and keep. It's just that simple. If you don't think the wage is right for you, seek employment elsewhere.

    Scale changes everything.
    No it doesn't. Not in the sense we've been discussing. Stocking shelves at Wal-Mart isn't an inherently more valuable task than stocking shelves at dollar general despite the vast difference of scale.

    [quote]As for finding out what I'm worth, it depends on what I'm doing. You see, people aren't paying for ME, they're paying for a service I provide. [quote]

    Cha-Ching! That is exactly right.

    Be that professional photography, restaurant management, or HR/Efficiency advice. They don't value ME. They value the job they need done, and whatever criteria they need met within that job. So the question isn't so much what I'M worth, it's what the job any given employer needs done is worth to them.
    It sounds like you get it, after all. Your job is worth whatever someone is willing to pay you to do it. After all that, you ended up at the right place after all!
    Last edited by Papa bull; 01-17-15 at 01:16 PM.
    You can't reason anyone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into in the first place.

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    Re: Minimum Wage Hikes Reduced Employment of Low-Skilled Workers

    [QUOTE=Papa bull;1064206749]Same screw = same price. What you build with it is irrelevant. You are arguing DIFFERENT screw, different price. If you need better screws, you pay what you must for better screws.



    It CAN but it's not necessarily true. You pay what you must to get the QUALITY you need or want to attract for your business model.



    It isn't the same job. The different organizations have different strategies and their pay structures are part of that strategy.

    A company pays what it needs for the quality of help it wants to attract and keep. It's just that simple. If you don't think the wage is right for you, seek employment elsewhere.

    Scale changes everything. As for finding out what I'm worth, it depends on what I'm doing. You see, people aren't paying for ME, they're paying for a service I provide.

    It sounds like you get it, after all. Your job is worth whatever someone is willing to pay you to do it. After all that, you ended up at the right place after all!
    And that distinction, that difference....the difference between attaching value to the worker, vs attaching value to the job, makes ALL the difference.

    It's the difference between advocating for a minimum wage so that people can live a better life, vs advocating for a minimum wage so that people spend more in a consumer economy.
    Quote Originally Posted by calamity View Post
    Reports indicate that everyone knew he was hauling a bunch of guns up there. But, since you brought it up, there's something which should be illegal: guns that breakdown.

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    Minimum Wage Hikes Reduced Employment of Low-Skilled Workers

    [QUOTE=KevinKohler;1064206763]
    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    Same screw = same price. What you build with it is irrelevant. You are arguing DIFFERENT screw, different price. If you need better screws, you pay what you must for better screws.



    It CAN but it's not necessarily true. You pay what you must to get the QUALITY you need or want to attract for your business model.



    It isn't the same job. The different organizations have different strategies and their pay structures are part of that strategy.

    A company pays what it needs for the quality of help it wants to attract and keep. It's just that simple. If you don't think the wage is right for you, seek employment elsewhere.



    And that distinction, that difference....the difference between attaching value to the worker, vs attaching value to the job, makes ALL the difference.

    It's the difference between advocating for a minimum wage so that people can live a better life, vs advocating for a minimum wage so that people spend more in a consumer economy.
    It is the difference and you still get it wrong. An employer pays what A JOB is worth. Your desire to live a better life doesn't change or drive that. And advocating for a higher minimum wage to "improve the economy" only makes sense if you think you can stand in a bucket and lift yourself by pulling on the handle. Artificially increasing cost with minimum wage hikes doesn't change anything except to devalue the currency.
    You can't reason anyone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into in the first place.

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