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Thread: Obama pushes broadband plan

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    Re: Obama pushes broadband plan

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    Uhh, people speak through their local government and do want them to. Do you really think everyone is thrilled with Comcast and hates the idea of Comcast having competition?
    To this point...

    If the intention of the President is to truly spur competition, and is not simply an ideological move pushing for greater oppertunity for the Government entering into and offering/controlling traditionally private sector segments of the economy, then why the focus on something that will provide a very limited amount of competition in a very limited scope as opposed to something broader.

    To my understanding, various laws and regulations have established near monopolistic ownership of varoius areas with regards to broadband services, specifically as it relates to cable providers. If competition is truly the utmost priority in this, then why not instead be pushing for changes that would allow local private entities...as well as the other major national entities...to actively and fairly compete in all markets?

    There are other methods of actually interjecting "competition" back into the market place in a fashion that is likely to be FAR more wide spread than relying on local goverments to choose to do this, as well as being likely to offer MORE options for competition as opposed to simply adding one....if that's the primary purpose, why go this route?

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    Re: Obama pushes broadband plan

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    There is no law that says FedEx has to charge more than the USPS. They cost more because they aren't nearly as efficient.
    I actually don't know the answer to this, so perhaps you can help me.

    Is the USPS completely funded by the fee's it imposes for shipping, purchasing boxes, etc? Or does it recieve any tax payer funds to pay for it's facilities, equipment, employees, and other operating expenses?

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    Re: Obama pushes broadband plan

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    I actually don't know the answer to this, so perhaps you can help me.

    Is the USPS completely funded by the fee's it imposes for shipping, purchasing boxes, etc? Or does it recieve any tax payer funds to pay for it's facilities, equipment, employees, and other operating expenses?
    Even though it's a federal agency, the Postal Service has not received any taxpayer funding since the early 1980s, when it was phased into an independent, self-sufficient financial entity.
    U.S. Postal Service to close another 2,000 locations - Jan. 24, 2011

    It sounds fair to me: the government sets up the infrastructure and then the people pay for it as they continue to use it.

  4. #114
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    Re: Obama pushes broadband plan

    Quote Originally Posted by Luftwaffe View Post
    That is foolish, the incredibly positive economic impacts of improving infrastructure cannot be ignored. Just be government is doing something, doesn't mean you as a libertarian MUST hate it.
    we're not really talking infrastructure though...we aren't talking about the govt building the physical assets that allow for an enterprise to run.. we're talking about the govt building the physical assets, and then running the enterprise for a fee ( not necessarily a profit, though) and being a market "competitor".

    ya see, I have zero problem with most govt infrastructure ( unlike the caricature of libertarians you have in your head)... for example, I don't mind the govt building roads.... there are lots of infrastructure projects i fully support the govt being involved in.


    are we know shifting the conversation to simple infrastructure?.. .as in , the govt simply building the physical assets ( running fiber optics lines to households, businesses, etc) for enterprises to run on?... because so far, it's been about the govt being a direct "competitor " to telecom firms.
    I don't have many problems with the govt providing the physical assets for enterprises to use and compete on, provided the govt doesn't enter the market as a competitor.

    so yes, infrastructure has great benefits... true competition does as well...... forgoing one or the other is foolish, to me... so why must we choose between the two?... why not formulate policy that takes advantage of both?

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    Re: Obama pushes broadband plan

    When the umpire starts playing the game, who then is the umpire?

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    Re: Obama pushes broadband plan

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrilla View Post
    we're not really talking infrastructure though...we aren't talking about the govt building the physical assets that allow for an enterprise to run.. we're talking about the govt building the physical assets, and then running the enterprise for a fee ( not necessarily a profit, though) and being a market "competitor".

    ya see, I have zero problem with most govt infrastructure ( unlike the caricature of libertarians you have in your head)... for example, I don't mind the govt building roads.... there are lots of infrastructure projects i fully support the govt being involved in.


    are we know shifting the conversation to simple infrastructure?.. .as in , the govt simply building the physical assets ( running fiber optics lines to households, businesses, etc) for enterprises to run on?... because so far, it's been about the govt being a direct "competitor " to telecom firms.
    I don't have many problems with the govt providing the physical assets for enterprises to use and compete on, provided the govt doesn't enter the market as a competitor.

    so yes, infrastructure has great benefits... true competition does as well...... forgoing one or the other is foolish, to me... so why must we choose between the two?... why not formulate policy that takes advantage of both?
    Certain government services by their very nature allow for competition and allow the quality to improve via that competition. A very straightforward example of this is mail delivery, and broadband should that competition be introduced. Obviously certain services by their physical nature competition would be logistically...challenging. This would include the dmv, water, gas and power. Anyway, when competition is a physical possibility it should be taken advantage of and introduced at every opportunity.
    Last edited by Cardinal; 01-16-15 at 01:37 PM.

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    Re: Obama pushes broadband plan

    Quote Originally Posted by AliHajiSheik View Post
    When the umpire starts playing the game, who then is the umpire?
    Are you referring to the states? Because those are the entities that banned local municipalities from setting up their own isps. What would motivate them to do that in the first place, do you suppose?

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    Re: Obama pushes broadband plan

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    U.S. Postal Service to close another 2,000 locations - Jan. 24, 2011

    It sounds fair to me: the government sets up the infrastructure and then the people pay for it as they continue to use it.
    the USPS is not "infrastructure"... it's a for-pay service provider....with a monopoly

    and it's true that they are "independent"... unfortunately, the basic rules of business do not apply to the USPS.
    if the USPS was a "real" business, it would have gone out of business long ago.....they would have been forced to file bankruptcy, the corporate officers would be fired or in jail, and all of the assets would have been sold off....hell, the govt , would have killed it simply for having a monopoly.

    being a govt. service provider has it's benefits...there's nothing to answer to but political will.
    right this 2nd, congress can say " the USPS will no longer be independent and we will fund the operations out of general funds"... or they can say "the USPS no longer exists, it's done".
    both of these statements are well withing the powers of congress to do...it's simply a matter of politics... business considerations don't exist for them.

    is it the same for municipalities?.. not really... they actually have to pay attention to financials... unless and until the federal govt decides to subsidize them.

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    Re: Obama pushes broadband plan

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrilla View Post
    the USPS is not "infrastructure"... it's a for-pay service provider....with a monopoly

    and it's true that they are "independent"... unfortunately, the basic rules of business do not apply to the USPS.
    if the USPS was a "real" business, it would have gone out of business long ago.....they would have been forced to file bankruptcy, the corporate officers would be fired or in jail, and all of the assets would have been sold off....hell, the govt , would have killed it simply for having a monopoly.

    being a govt. service provider has it's benefits...there's nothing to answer to but political will.
    right this 2nd, congress can say " the USPS will no longer be independent and we will fund the operations out of general funds"... or they can say "the USPS no longer exists, it's done".
    both of these statements are well withing the powers of congress to do...it's simply a matter of politics... business considerations don't exist for them.

    is it the same for municipalities?.. not really... they actually have to pay attention to financials... unless and until the federal govt decides to subsidize them.
    Your post is based on nonsensical premises. Mail delivery is infrastructure, and the USPS is not a monopoly. Start over.

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    Re: Obama pushes broadband plan

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    Certain government services by their very nature allow for competition and allow the quality to improve via that competition. A very straightforward example of this is mail delivery, and broadband should that competition be introduced. Obviously certain services by their physical nature competition would be logistically...challenging. This would include the dmv, water, gas and power. Anyway, when competition is a physical possibility it should be taken advantage of and introduced at every opportunity.
    your straight forward example is false.
    mail delivery is not competitive.. it's a govt monopoly, by law.


    do UPS and fedex ever deliver the mail?.... yes, they do... the USPS contracts with them to deliver mail in some locations.... the USPS makes use of the benefits of private sector competition( brought about by competition in parcel delivery) in order to provide their noncompetitive service.

    the parcel delivery service is competitive...it's highly competitive among private firms.

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