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Thread: Church fires unwed pregant employee

  1. #21
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    Re: Church fires unwed pregant employee

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    Yes it does. Your suggestion is that she lie and hopes it's never uncovered. Once again, not in keeping with either the letter or the spirit of the employment.
    Not sure how much that matters to her or any individual. Maybe she just loved caring for kids. I dont know how closely she follows that or any religion either.

    How many people follow the 'spirit of their employment' at McDonalds? I bet vegetarians work there, lol. And do a good job too. Just like it's likely this woman did/could do a good job even if disagreeing with some of her employer's principles.

    My workplace does not allow firearms on the premises...I disagree with that perspective but it's in my employment contract and I follow it. And I do a good job

    Got a little preachy there huh? Sorry.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

  2. #22
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    Re: Church fires unwed pregant employee

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    You can try to create some kind of libertarian narrative out of this if you want, but really this incident is a pretty glaring character study of Christians. The church may have been allowed to throw a pregnant mother out on the street, and we're allowed to look on and say, "Wow, that **** is cold."
    More nonsense, she wasn't thrown out on the street. She was fired. There's a large difference in characterization there. Makes it obvious what you're arguing.

  3. #23
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    Re: Church fires unwed pregant employee

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    They are free to do so. Though it's interesting how heartless and cruel Christians can be at times.
    I agree, the church is like a business and so they should have the right to hire or fire as they see fit. However, I am against their tax free status on income.

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    Re: Church fires unwed pregant employee

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    More nonsense, she wasn't thrown out on the street. She was fired. There's a large difference in characterization there. Makes it obvious what you're arguing.
    Oh, so they set her up in a job somewhere else? If the answer to that is anything but "Yes, and right away," then they threw her out on the street.

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    Re: Church fires unwed pregant employee

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    Not sure how much that matters to her or any individual. Maybe she just loved caring for kids. I dont know how closely she follows that or any religion either.

    How many people follow the 'spirit of their employment' at McDonalds? I bet vegetarians work there, lol. And do a good job too. Just like it's likely this woman did/could do a good job even if disagreeing with some of her employer's principles.

    My workplace does not allow firearms on the premises...I disagree with that perspective but it's in my employment contract and I follow it. And I do a good job

    Got a little preachy there huh? Sorry.
    Depends upon where you're working I suppose. If you've taken a job at a children's charity and hate children, but lie about it to keep your job, that's an example of violating the spirit of your employment. In any event, you go to work for a church and don't believe in the principles of that church, you're an asshole to begin with.

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    Re: Church fires unwed pregant employee

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    Bull****. They didn't throw her in the street as you say. They may have indeed shown her love and forgiveness. Neither of which equates out to keeping her job.
    They did huck her out. You can be pissed at reality, but it doesnt change reality.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

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  7. #27
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    Re: Church fires unwed pregant employee

    Quote Originally Posted by Cryptic View Post
    If legal action is taken, this one could well go to the Supreme Court:

    Mom-to-be claims she was fired from Baptist church for not scheduling wedding date | Fox News

    Earlier, SCOTUS rebuked Obama's attempts to have these terminations automatically reviewable by the government 9-0 (Tabor Lutheran vs EEOC). But, some justices also said the ministerial exemption, though broad, is not all encompassing. They then welcomed further cases.

    In this case, the woman is a day care worker, a position that may, or may not be considered "ministerial". In my opinion, if one accepts employment of any kind at a non profit (church, mosque, temple, PETA, etc), you play by their rules, or you dont play there.

    As a side note, there was a similar one with a Catholic dioceses, but the diocese offered a modest settlement (and in doing so placed their First Amendment rights in danger), and the case was dropped.
    That's not true though. You can't place things in a handbook that allows you to act illegally...and discriminating based on pregnancy is illegal.

    I think the ministerial angle is an interesting one because it does allow churches an exception to employment discrimination laws but does that include daycare workers? It seems like when the court provided the exemption it was based on someone actually being a minister.
    “Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone.” John Maynard Keynes

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    Re: Church fires unwed pregant employee

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    Depends upon where you're working I suppose. If you've taken a job at a children's charity and hate children, but lie about it to keep your job, that's an example of violating the spirit of your employment. In any event, you go to work for a church and don't believe in the principles of that church, you're an asshole to begin with.
    As I said. I dont necessarily think it matters if you honor the 'spirit' of an employer. Not if you are committed to doing a good job, period.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

  9. #29
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    Re: Church fires unwed pregant employee

    Quote Originally Posted by iliveonramen View Post
    That's not true though. You can't place things in a handbook that allows you to act illegally...and discriminating based on pregnancy is illegal.

    I think the ministerial angle is an interesting one because it does allow churches an exception to employment discrimination laws but does that include daycare workers? It seems like when the court provided the exemption it was based on someone actually being a minister.
    I pointed that out earlier but it also depends on if the protection of religious beliefs are affected.

    Then it becomes an issue of which rights take precedence. And pregnancy is not protected by the Const.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

  10. #30
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    Re: Church fires unwed pregant employee

    Quote Originally Posted by year2late View Post
    Not having unwed mother to be working for the church makes the institution "look" better.

    Firing an unwed mother to be ---- making it difficult to support herself and family....IMHO clearly against what Jesus would want.

    Do they have a right? Probably.

    Just makes them look like folks that are more about judgment and less about Jesus.
    Yeah, for as much as they'll cry to think about the children, they sure didn't here. But I still say it's their call.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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