• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Family: Lakewood church stops woman's funeral because she was gay

Who cares if they couldn't come up with a name of a pastor. If he did not want them to celebrate her life he should not have agreed to perform the funeral in the first place. To interrupt it mid-stream again shows a cruelty not befitting a minister. You can say the family agreed to certain conditions all you want but even they probably could not control the situation. If you have a funeral for someone in our culture that is supposed to be a celebration of their life. You cannot celebrate someones life without showing them in their happiest moments. I don't know about you but my happiest moments include my wife. To celebrate my life is to celebrate my life with her. Any pastor worth **** would know that and would know there is now way anyone could honor such an onerous condition as he applied.
Excuse me but the pastor told them ahead of time if they wanted him to officiate the funeral in his church, the same sex relationship could not be celebrated. Those who hired him did not honor that. If the family was not happy with the agreement, they could have sought someone else to do the service. They did not. If they wanted the same sex relationship highlighted in the service, they should have chose someone that was willing to do so.
 
Stay classy fundamentalists!
 
Excuse me but the pastor told them ahead of time if they wanted him to officiate the funeral in his church, the same sex relationship could not be celebrated. Those who hired him did not honor that. If the family was not happy with the agreement, they could have sought someone else to do the service. They did not. If they wanted the same sex relationship highlighted in the service, they should have chose someone that was willing to do so.

Again that "pastor" should have realised, as any normal person would, that this would be an onerous condition that could not possibly be enforced even if the family wanted it be enforced. Someone would have brought a picture of her and her wife together. Why is that so hard to understand? I am not saying the "pastor" wasn't within his rights to do what he did. He was, however, everyone should denounce him as the cruel bastard he is for doing what he did.
 
I think this is excellent evidence as to why society cannot trust religious institutions with important parts of our lives. What does a funeral need a church or a preacher for? This pompous man has decided its his place to hurt a grieving family. Religious bigots picket funerals and hurt other mourners. Secular principles don't lead people to do this kind of thing. This is just one more thing that religion perverts.
 
Again that "pastor" should have realised, as any normal person would, that this would be an onerous condition that could not possibly be enforced even if the family wanted it be enforced. Someone would have brought a picture of her and her wife together. Why is that so hard to understand? I am not saying the "pastor" wasn't within his rights to do what he did. He was, however, everyone should denounce him as the cruel bastard he is for doing what he did.

So you want to call him a "cruel bastard" because he refused to go against what his faith teaches just to appease a few?
Even after he made it known that his church could not be used as a means to celebrate a same sex union?
Wow.....just wow.
 
I think this is excellent evidence as to why society cannot trust religious institutions with important parts of our lives. What does a funeral need a church or a preacher for? This pompous man has decided its his place to hurt a grieving family. Religious bigots picket funerals and hurt other mourners. Secular principles don't lead people to do this kind of thing. This is just one more thing that religion perverts.
This so called "pomous man" you claim, did not go looking for this, the family of the deceased came looking for him. Let's get that straight.
It was the deceased's family that was unwilling to honor the terms of the one THEY hired.
Geesh.
 
This so called "pomous man" you claim, did not go looking for this, the family of the deceased came looking for him. Let's get that straight.
It was the deceased's family that was unwilling to honor the terms of the one THEY hired.
Geesh.

Only because religious organizations hold themselves out to the community of being capable custodians of this kind of thing. And they are clearly incapable of it. They should not be trusted with such a high place in our society if they fail to live up to the responsibility it entails.
 
No, a book written by ancient people said that, not God.

It was God who said it through his prophets. God speaks through man and to man. The Bible is the Inspired Word of God, not just a book written by ancient people, that doesn't discredit things or make it any less true.
 
Only because religious organizations hold themselves out to the community of being capable custodians of this kind of thing. And they are clearly incapable of it. They should not be trusted with such a high place in our society if they fail to live up to the responsibility it entails.
That's absolutely preposterous. These so called "religious organizations" have done more for humanity than you are capable of counting to. They back what they believe in dollars benefiting millions in every corner of the globe. To these people their faith is more than a religion. It is a way of life.

Those who are at fault here are the ones who would not accept the terms of the pastor they hired. They had no respect for his beliefs or his sanctuary where he is the shepherd and expected him to compromise to accommodate them. Well it didn't happen.
 
Is kissing a loved one a sin?

It certainly can be. If, for example, the woman I happen to feel "love" for at the moment is not the woman I am "married" to, then yes, absolutely, romantic physical intimacy with her is a sin.

Or did the church just choose to interpret that? What if it was a married straight woman and they showed a pic of her kissing a man not her husband? Would everyone assume she was an adulteress?

I suppose it would depend upon context - is that the man that she lived with and slept with? If so, then, well, yes.

Her life is her life....a complete picture, not a snapshot of things the church doesnt 'like' or chooses to call out. How about if she was toasting friends in a pic and they objected to her drinking alcohol?

Then they should say things like "please do not include celebrations of alcohol in the church", and those who are arranging the funeral should honor that if they want to use the space for the funeral.

The people who decided to ignore the Church's requests here are the ones who created a problem and attempted to force their preferences on others. Good on the pastor for (hopefully politely) refusing to compromise on principles.

Do a lot of churches take license to do those things or just ones that want to force their own judgement on people? Rather than, again, letting God do so.

The Church is called upon both to judge actions and not to celebrate sin.
 
You by your very post shows your bias and unwillingness to be objective.
It's impossible to have a conversation with someone who is so bias.
Have a nice day.

WTF?? I just spent five posts clarifying that the church had the exact right to do as they did, and that I advocated them being forthright and honest about their beliefs, and that makes you throw your hands up in frustration and defeat? What do you advocate? That they should have been sneaky about their principles?
 
This story is outrageous and it makes Christianity look bad. The pastor was clearly wrong. Stopping a funeral is beyond offensive, and the family will always remember his actions on a day that was already tragic. His actions hurt dozens of innocent people, and for no good reason.

I agree, if he has issues with performing funerals for LGBT people then he should be upfront about it. I have no sympathy for the pastor... :shrug:


Look, I could understand the pastor refusing to do the funeral when they first approached him. But if he has this kind of bias, he should do the homework up front to find out if the dead person is gay or not.

Once the funeral is underway - there is no way he should have stopped and demanded that that pictures be removed. That is a gross dereliction of his pastoral duties in my opinion.

Family: Lakewood church stops woman's funeral because she was gay - The Denver Post
 
WTF?? I just spent five posts clarifying that the church had the exact right to do as they did, and that I advocated them being forthright and honest about their beliefs, and that makes you throw your hands up in frustration and defeat? What do you advocate? That they should have been sneaky about their principles?
It's your snarky comments in between such claims that was a dead give away. :lol: Enjoy your evening Cardinal.
 
It was God who said it through his prophets. God speaks through man and to man. The Bible is the Inspired Word of God, not just a book written by ancient people, that doesn't discredit things or make it any less true.

So says the book written by ancient people. Hello circular reasoning.

I can't say anything against people having faith, no one can win that argument, but when you try to present it as facts, your arguments are just laughable and lack any sense of logic. Just be honest and say you have faith and be done with it. Nothing you are saying here is fact.
 
I think this is excellent evidence as to why society cannot trust religious institutions with important parts of our lives. What does a funeral need a church or a preacher for? This pompous man has decided its his place to hurt a grieving family. Religious bigots picket funerals and hurt other mourners. Secular principles don't lead people to do this kind of thing. This is just one more thing that religion perverts.

I have been to funerals at which there was no clergy. That is a choice people make.

Your knee jerk reaction to feed your anti-religion bias leaves you not considering other possibilities here. That a bunch of lesbians were able to snatch the coffin up and parade it across the street and supposedly have a funeral on the spot at another location leaves me questioning whether or not this was already expected and planned for as a staged victimhood event.
 
I have been to funerals at which there was no clergy. That is a choice people make.

Your knee jerk reaction to feed your anti-religion bias leaves you not considering other possibilities here. That a bunch of lesbians were able to snatch the coffin up and parade it across the street and supposedly have a funeral on the spot at another location leaves me questioning whether or not this was already expected and planned for as a staged victimhood event.
I've been to funerals where there was no clergy either. Family members/friends gave the Eulogy.
If a Christian burial was so important, why didn't they seek someone who had no rejections against same sex couples? This pastor was willing to give the Eulogy but was unwilling to celebrate a same sex union. And they couldn't honor that. Why?
 
Why are you confused by my use of the word "we?" Are you under the impression that I'm the only person here who wouldn't want to live in a society dictated by the church's views of right and wrong?

No, I think you speak your hate filled ideas about religion from your own self and attempt to make it a group thing to avoid looking like the hater. The whole "society dictated by church rules" thing is your attempt to disguise your hatred behind a political issue (that has nothing to do with the thread in any event).
 
Again that "pastor" should have realised, as any normal person would, that this would be an onerous condition that could not possibly be enforced even if the family wanted it be enforced. Someone would have brought a picture of her and her wife together. Why is that so hard to understand? I am not saying the "pastor" wasn't within his rights to do what he did. He was, however, everyone should denounce him as the cruel bastard he is for doing what he did.

Bull**** plain and simple. The pastor did not come to them soliciting his funeral services, THEY came to him, to his church. If they couldn't live with that church's rules they were always free to go elsewhere. Instead they agreed to follow his rules and the day of tried to pull a fast one figuring he would be stuck.
 
No, I think you speak your hate filled ideas about religion from your own self and attempt to make it a group thing to avoid looking like the hater. The whole "society dictated by church rules" thing is your attempt to disguise your hatred behind a political issue (that has nothing to do with the thread in any event).

1. Do you agree with me that the church had the right to stop the funeral and fire the pregnant woman for not marrying in a timely manner?
2. Do you agree with me that the church should be upfront and honest about their principles and shouldn't be afraid to demonstrate them?
3. Do you agree that we should be allowed to come to our own decision after witnessing such principles in action and decide for ourselves if that's the kind of society we'd want to live in?
 
1. Do you agree with me that the church had the right to stop the funeral and fire the pregnant woman for not marrying in a timely manner?
2. Do you agree with me that the church should be upfront and honest about their principles and shouldn't be afraid to demonstrate them?
3. Do you agree that we should be allowed to come to our own decision after witnessing such principles in action and decide for ourselves if that's the kind of society we'd want to live in?

You can stop the twisting and spinning now, I do not agree with your knee jerk hatred of religion and people's spirituality. It drips from your posts and the hatred you express is easy to see, you cannot run from that.
 
Bull**** plain and simple. The pastor did not come to them soliciting his funeral services, THEY came to him, to his church. If they couldn't live with that church's rules they were always free to go elsewhere. Instead they agreed to follow his rules and the day of tried to pull a fast one figuring he would be stuck.

I am just finding this thread and am asking a favor, could you link me to where it talks about them springing anything on the church? I would appreciate it.
 
You can stop the twisting and spinning now, I do not agree with your knee jerk hatred of religion and people's spirituality. It drips from your posts and the hatred you express is easy to see, you cannot run from that.

I don't think you quite understand how this "tolerance" thing works. Obviously I don't like these demonstrations of religion, are you so amazed that I would have a difference of opinion? I'm here arguing for the church's right to run their church according to their principles, yet you have the nerve to call me a "hater?" If you want to see intolerance, look in the mirror and observe your belief that I don't have the right to disagree with the principles of your religion even though I'm arguing in favor of its followers having the right to practice their faith.
 
This story is outrageous and it makes Christianity look bad. The pastor was clearly wrong. Stopping a funeral is beyond offensive, and the family will always remember his actions on a day that was already tragic. His actions hurt dozens of innocent people, and for no good reason.

I agree, if he has issues with performing funerals for LGBT people then he should be upfront about it.

The pastor was upfront - it was those who arranged the funeral who chose to create a conflict, assuming that the pastor would allow them to run over the church. They are the ones who violated trust in this situation, and it is on their heads that the tragedy falls.
 
I've been to funerals where there was no clergy either. Family members/friends gave the Eulogy.
If a Christian burial was so important, why didn't they seek someone who had no rejections against same sex couples? This pastor was willing to give the Eulogy but was unwilling to celebrate a same sex union. And they couldn't honor that. Why?

Because that was his choice. The article in the OP at least implies that the minister had conditions attached to his willingness to perform the service and the lesbian horde undermined his terms and now expect New Hope Ministry to pay for the funeral which makes even less sense unless they were plotting this. Too much coincidence here for me to believe that there is not something relevant not being said by the deceased woman's activist posse.
 
Back
Top Bottom