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Thread: Family: Lakewood church stops woman's funeral because she was gay

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    Re: Family: Lakewood church stops woman's funeral because she was gay

    Quote Originally Posted by smb View Post
    That may be your moral to the story. Mine and I would say most peoples moral of the story is don't engage in wanton behavior and not expect to be called out for it.
    There's nothing wanton about an individual the refuses to compromise on his beliefs. The pastor opened up the doors of his church to the family knowing the deceased was a lesbian. All he asked was that part of her life not be celebrated in his church. The kin folk refused to honor those wishes and chose to move the funeral back to the funeral home.

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    Re: Family: Lakewood church stops woman's funeral because she was gay

    Quote Originally Posted by vesper View Post
    Yes the family rented the church but nowhere have I read they wanted their own pastor to officiate. That's a new one. And if that were so, the pastor would be made known in advance what was acceptable in practice. But then again they claimed that New Hope Ministries did not refund their money and that was a lie too.
    Regardless, the family was not forced to leave the church and have the funeral at the funeral home. It was their choice.
    New Hope Ministries, while described by a local chaplain as welcoming of gays and lesbians, reportedly told Collier's kin that there could be no visible signs in the service that she was gay. It's that love the sinner not the sin adage.

    Moral to the story. Don't rent a church simply out of convenience and expect to do things "your way".
    I read somewhere that friends ( I really do not recall hearing family associated with this funeral outside she had a spouse and children) did have someone else who was going to officiate the service and the church just had their guy there as a part of it. Anywho, to me this is like a black family renting the KKK chapel and then being outraged when the Grand Wizard showed up in a hoodie.

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    Re: Family: Lakewood church stops woman's funeral because she was gay

    Quote Originally Posted by Hard Truth View Post
    Not a single article, nor the pastor's quote claims that the family was given warnings about taboo pictures until 15 minutes after the scheduled start of the event. The family says that they provided the video a week before the event, the reason that they did that is not mentioned.

    A video that was misplaced. Duh!
    It had to replaced and reviewed. You don't even know if the videos were the same and are pretty much going on about nothing.


    And there is a reason that it was provided ahead of time. You wanting to ignore that speaks volumes to your agenda.
    I mean really? Do you really not understand that requiring something be provided in advance for review means there are standards that must be met?

    Are you really trying to argue that requiring a review doesn't mean there are some standards that must be met?
    That would be ludicrous if you are.


    Obviously there were standards in effect. Standards that Chaplain Rolando was able to reiterate to the press.
    So while you say no article you have seen says anything about an advanced warning, likewise, no article says they did not know of the standards in effect.
    So again, given the fact that they knew the video needed to be reviewed first suggests they did know that there were standards in effect that required a review to begin with.


    The very fact that it was given for review ahead of time clearly suggests that there are standards which must be met.
    The fact that Chaplain Rolando was able to reiterate the Chapels standards also suggests that it was known.


    Quote Originally Posted by Hard Truth View Post
    The Big Lie is that the family was given advanced warning about the taboo pictures and chose to ignore it.
    You have no clue as to what you speak.
    There is no lie or "big lie" as you state, your saying so though is, as there is not enough information to say what you just did.
    Especially as a requiring a review suggests standards were in place. Given the known information it would be foolish to argue they didn't know what the required review was for.
    A review that was not able to happen until the misplaced video was submitted for review, if, and only if they wanted a video playing.
    Or are you forgetting they they did not have to have one.


    Quote Originally Posted by Hard Truth View Post
    The undisputed fact is that they were not given warnings about taboo pictures until 15 minutes after the scheduled start of the event.
    Wrong.
    You are speaking nonsense and nothing you said counters what I presented.
    The only things undisputed is that she is dead, services were moved and that the information regarding the event is very limited and being spun to fit a narrative.



    Bottom line. It was their choice and they decided to move the service.
    Last edited by Excon; 01-15-15 at 06:54 PM.
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    Re: Family: Lakewood church stops woman's funeral because she was gay

    Quote Originally Posted by Declan View Post
    I read somewhere that friends ( I really do not recall hearing family associated with this funeral outside she had a spouse and children) did have someone else who was going to officiate the service and the church just had their guy there as a part of it. Anywho, to me this is like a black family renting the KKK chapel and then being outraged when the Grand Wizard showed up in a hoodie.
    It doesn't make any sense does it Declan that a church who does not recognize same sex unions would be the choice of the family except of course only to use the building to accommodate the number of people attending the funeral out of convenience to them.

    If they had someone else chosen to officiate the funeral, then that individual would have been made known well in advance what the church would and would not tolerate. If the church is not going to recognize such things among its own congregation, who in their right mind would expect it to be acceptable for someone else?

    I did a little research on this church. It has had some really good success in reaching out to people that society has given up on. Whether drug addicts, prostitutes, convicts or anyone else society is willing to throw away. They show the love of Christ to them, accept them as they are and have changed lives for the better. I think it was compassion that the church agreed to the funeral at their church but like in all things they recognize as sin, they will not allow that to be celebrated inside their church walls. The sinner is welcome without his deeds celebrated. That goes for all believers in just about any congregation. For a believer knows that God loved them first in all their sin and in that same love reach out to others showing that same type of love. Just a thought.
    Last edited by vesper; 01-15-15 at 06:52 PM.

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    Re: Family: Lakewood church stops woman's funeral because she was gay

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post

    A video that was misplaced. Duh!
    It had to replaced and reviewed. You don't even know if the videos were the same and are pretty much going on about nothing.


    And there is a reason that it was provided ahead of time. You wanting to ignore that speaks volumes to your agenda.
    I mean really? Do you really not understand that requiring something be provided in advance for review means there are standards that must be met?

    Are you really trying to argue that requiring a review doesn't mean there are some standards that must be met?
    That would be ludicrous if you are.


    Obviously there were standards in effect. Standards that Chaplain Rolando was able to reiterate to the press.
    So while you say no article you have seen says anything about an advanced warning, likewise, no article says they did not know of the standards in effect.
    So again, given the fact that they knew the video needed to be reviewed first suggests they did know that there were standards in effect that required a review to begin with.


    The very fact that it was given for review ahead of time clearly suggests that there are standards which must be met.
    The fact that Chaplain Rolando was able to reiterate the Chapels standards also suggests that it was known.



    You have no clue as to what you speak.
    There is no lie or "big lie" as you state, your saying so though is, as there is not enough information to say what you just did.
    Especially as a requiring a review suggests standards were in place. Given the known information it would be foolish to argue they didn't know what the required review was for.
    A review that was not able to happen until the misplaced video was submitted for review, if, and only if they wanted a video playing.
    Or are you forgetting they they did not have to have one.



    Wrong.
    You are speaking nonsense and nothing you said counters what I presented.
    The only things undisputed is that she is dead, services were moved and that the information regarding the event is very limited and being spun to fit a narrative.



    Bottom line. It was their choice and they decided to move the service.
    I provided links to several articles that support the story in the OP's article and my posts. No where is it stated that they were given guidelines in advance. The pastor did not make that claim in his apology. It is never stated why they provided the video in advance. No one has provided a link indicating that they were warned in advance about the anti-gay picture taboo.

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    Re: Family: Lakewood church stops woman's funeral because she was gay

    Quote Originally Posted by Declan View Post
    I read somewhere that friends ( I really do not recall hearing family associated with this funeral outside she had a spouse and children) did have someone else who was going to officiate the service and the church just had their guy there as a part of it. Anywho, to me this is like a black family renting the KKK chapel and then being outraged when the Grand Wizard showed up in a hoodie.
    How would they know from the name of the church that they are anti-gay bigots? My overall impression is that only about half of all churches are still clinging to ant-gay bigotry.
    Last edited by Hard Truth; 01-15-15 at 07:11 PM.

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    Re: Family: Lakewood church stops woman's funeral because she was gay

    Quote Originally Posted by Hard Truth View Post
    There is nothing in your post or the ABC article that contradicts all the other articles and my posts, except a minor discrepancy in the time line.* The lie being spread by some people in this thread is that the family had advanced notice of the church's policies.

    *the other articles say 15 minutes after the scheduled start time.
    The timeline is rather critical, as you are quick to call others liars.

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    Re: Family: Lakewood church stops woman's funeral because she was gay

    Quote Originally Posted by Hard Truth View Post
    I provided links to several articles that support the story in the OP's article and my posts. No where is it stated that they were given guidelines in advance. The pastor did not make that claim in his apology. It is never stated why they provided the video in advance. No one has provided a link indicating that they were warned in advance about the anti-gay picture taboo.
    There you go speaking nonsense again. Nothing you said counters what I presented.

    So again.
    Nothing says they were not informed in advance of the required standards.
    The fact that they had to submit the video for review suggests they knew there were standards that had to be met.
    The fact that their Chaplain Rolando was able to reiterate the Chapels standards also suggests that it was known.
    You simply can not get around this.

    But do keep going in circles, it is fun to watch.
    Last edited by Excon; 01-15-15 at 07:29 PM.
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    Re: Family: Lakewood church stops woman's funeral because she was gay

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    ...Nothing says they were not informed in advance of the required standards......

    "A week before her funeral services were held, her family had given the pastor of the New Hope Ministries a memorial video. However, the family did not receive any word that they would be turned away until 15 minutes after the memorial service was already scheduled to begin. During the funeral service, Pastor Ray Chavez told the family that they would have to edit out the images, including one of Collier proposing to her wife, in order to continue." Lakewood Church Refuses to Host Lesbian Funeral - World Religion News

    "....Relatives of a Colorado woman say they were forced to move her funeral – 15 minutes before the scheduled start of the service – over objections to a video showing highlights from the openly lesbian woman’s life....Maestas, who helped Collier’s mother arrange the funeral, told ABC News that New Hope Ministries was aware that Collier was a lesbian. They told the church about her sexual orientation while they were making arrangements for her funeral. Maestas also told the church that they would be playing a video at the service. “The only other thing they asked me was to have these videos ready two days prior so they could review them,” Maestas said. “I provided the video, and got the okay from the funeral home that we would be able to show it....” "
    Relatives Livid After Colorado Church Objects to Lesbian's Funeral - ABC News

    "...However, the family did not receive any word that they would be turned away until 15 minutes after the memorial service was already scheduled to begin. During the funeral service, Pastor Ray Chavez told the family that they would have to edit out the images, including one of Collier proposing to her wife, in order to continue...."
    Lakewood Church Refuses to Host Lesbian Funeral - World Religion News

    "....An hour-long viewing of Collier's body had just finished and the memorial service was 15 minutes underway when Chavez stopped it, those in attendance said. Friends say they gave the church a remembrance video of Collier a week before that contained images of her kissing and embracing her wife. The pastor had every chance to stop the funeral long before it began, they said...."

    "....About fifteen minutes after the funeral was scheduled to begin — with the open casket and flowers already in place, and with about 170 people in the pews — New Hope’s pastor objected to some content in a video of the woman’s life."
    Read more at http://www.inquisitr.com/1752856/lak...HegR4vH6ysy.99

    "...They claim Pastor Chavez's demand came on the day of the funeral, instead of days prior when the tape was delivered to church officials.....But the grieving kin of 33-year-old Vanessa Nicole Collier claim their hopes were dashed and that they found little mercy when, allegedly just 15 minutes into (or before, according to a local source) the funeral service and after an hour-long viewing had already taken place, Chavez delivered the devastating news...."
    http://www.christianpost.com/news/ch...as-gay-132526/

    "...An hour-long viewing of Collier's body had just finished and the memorial service was 15 minutes underway when Chavez stopped it, those in attendance said."

    Friends say they gave the church a remembrance video of Collier a week before that contained images of her kissing and embracing her wife. The pastor had every chance to stop the funeral long before it began, they said..."
    http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_27...-because-woman

    "...The pastor who called off the funeral defended his actions to KCNC, saying he hadn't been aware of the video until right before the service, and that he gave the family the chance to edit it."

    Colorado church canceled lesbian woman's funeral, family says | Seattle News, Weather, Traffic, Video and Sports | KIRO 7... | www.kirotv.com
    Last edited by Hard Truth; 01-15-15 at 08:21 PM.

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    Re: Family: Lakewood church stops woman's funeral because she was gay

    Quote Originally Posted by Hard Truth View Post
    Nothing says they were not informed in advance of the required standards.

    "A week before her funeral services were held, her family had given the pastor of the New Hope Ministries a memorial video. However, the family did not receive any word that they would be turned away until 15 minutes after the memorial service was already scheduled to begin. During the funeral service, Pastor Ray Chavez told the family that they would have to edit out the images, including one of Collier proposing to her wife, in order to continue." Lakewood Church Refuses to Host Lesbian Funeral - World Religion News

    "....Relatives of a Colorado woman say they were forced to move her funeral – 15 minutes before the scheduled start of the service – over objections to a video showing highlights from the openly lesbian woman’s life....Maestas, who helped Collier’s mother arrange the funeral, told ABC News that New Hope Ministries was aware that Collier was a lesbian. They told the church about her sexual orientation while they were making arrangements for her funeral. Maestas also told the church that they would be playing a video at the service. “The only other thing they asked me was to have these videos ready two days prior so they could review them,” Maestas said. “I provided the video, and got the okay from the funeral home that we would be able to show it....” "
    Relatives Livid After Colorado Church Objects to Lesbian's Funeral - ABC News

    "...However, the family did not receive any word that they would be turned away until 15 minutes after the memorial service was already scheduled to begin. During the funeral service, Pastor Ray Chavez told the family that they would have to edit out the images, including one of Collier proposing to her wife, in order to continue...."
    Lakewood Church Refuses to Host Lesbian Funeral - World Religion News

    "....An hour-long viewing of Collier's body had just finished and the memorial service was 15 minutes underway when Chavez stopped it, those in attendance said. Friends say they gave the church a remembrance video of Collier a week before that contained images of her kissing and embracing her wife. The pastor had every chance to stop the funeral long before it began, they said...."


    There you go arguing against that which was not said. D'oh! iLOL
    You are going in circles because you can not admit what the information actually suggests.

    Pay attention to that which you quote.

    Nothing says they were not informed in advance of the required standards.
    The fact that they had to submit the video for review suggests they knew there were standards that had to be met.
    The fact that their Chaplain Rolando was able to reiterate the Chapels standards also suggests that it was known.
    You simply can not get around this.

    But do keep going in circles, it is fun to watch.


    You pointing to the following is asinine.
    not receive any word that they would be turned away until

    That is due to having to review the new video that replaced the misplaced one.
    It has absolutely nothing to do with whether they knew the standards or not.
    The fact that they knew a review was required suggests they knew that the standards existed.


    Anyways. The headline of this article is false. Much like the other disproved claims.
    Last edited by Excon; 01-15-15 at 08:21 PM.
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