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Thread: Family: Lakewood church stops woman's funeral because she was gay

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    Re: Family: Lakewood church stops woman's funeral because she was gay

    Quote Originally Posted by iliveonramen View Post
    It's also a contract, and either have qualifying questions before agreeing to a funeral or do your research ahead of time.
    I think the end of your comment is the most effective way to handle a funeral at a religious establishment:
    Research.

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    Re: Family: Lakewood church stops woman's funeral because she was gay

    Quote Originally Posted by vesper View Post
    That's not my understanding from the accounts I have read.

    Anyone who has gone through this knows the family has to go to the funeral home to pick out the casket, the vault, make arrangements for internment and provide the funeral home with the clothing the deceased will be wearing. They help you write the obituary, pick out memorial cards, down to the details of what type of music is to be played. Newcomer funeral homes which is where the deceased was taken, provide a service to the family of a tribute video made put to music of family photos. They ask you to bring in the photos to be included. At that time you are also asked how many days of the showing and if the funeral home will be setting up for the Eulogy and how many did the family expect would be attending.
    The family was expecting aprox. 200 people according to reports. I believe ultimately the reports stated 168-175 in attendance. Now anyone who has attended a funeral at a Newcomer Funeral Home knows the design is basically one large room partitioned off as needed with curtains for showings/funerals. One partitioned area can seat about 100 comfortably. It really is a no frills funeral home chain and that is why they can save the family thousands in costs in fees. Which leads me to believe this family wasn't looking for a church for a Christian burial as much as they were looking for a place that would accommodate the large number of family and friends that were attending the funeral. As usually is the case when someone dies suddenly. The deceased was a 33 year old woman who died from a self inflicted gunshot wound while cleaning her gun. The church was located directly across the street from the funeral home. You have to ask yourself why would a same sex couple choose a church to hold a funeral service that does not recognize same sex unions? Doesn't add up except they were just wanting to use the church as a place that would accommodate their family and friends out of convenience.

    Anytime a body needs to be moved to another location for the Eulogy, it is done so hours before the funeral. All the flowers, the tribute memorial video , the memorial cards, the book for those attending to sign, the flowers, everything that was at the funeral home is set up at the church. There is usually an hour before the funeral for the immediate family to come and mourn privately before the service and the church has people on staff to be there to see to their needs. It was then the family told the pastor that they wanted the tribute video played during the service.

    The church reviewed the video and found a couple of pictures unacceptable and asked the family to edit them or he would not be able to do the service.
    David Campanella, area manager for Newcomer Funeral Home in Lakewood, where the service was eventually moved, said they handled all of the funeral services for Collier's family when at the last minute the ceremony for Collier was moved from the church to the funeral home.

    "Certain events were not going to be allowed to take place according to the church," Campanella said. "In talking with family we decided it would be best to have the services here."

    So the service was delayed 15 minutes from the time it was to start because other arrangements had to be made to relocate the funeral and find another person to officiate it because the family would not abide by the pastor's wishes in his sanctuary.
    The family rented the space only and provided their own pastor. There is absolutely no evidence that they warned about the taboo pictures until 15 minutes after the event was schedule to begin. There is no way the video could have been edited quickly enough. The bottom line is that the family was not informed about the taboo until it was too late. The church's pastor chose to ruin the event rather than allow the video to be shown. That makes him a big A-hole. If he provided advanced warning he would still be an A-hole but a smaller one.

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    Re: Family: Lakewood church stops woman's funeral because she was gay

    Quote Originally Posted by 11Bravo View Post
    I think the end of your comment is the most effective way to handle a funeral at a religious establishment:
    Research.
    The family brought in their own pastor. They had no reason to expect that some bigot in charge of the church would control the content of their funeral.

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    Re: Family: Lakewood church stops woman's funeral because she was gay

    Quote Originally Posted by Hard Truth View Post
    The family brought in their own pastor. They had no reason to expect that some bigot in charge of the church would control the content of their funeral.
    Well it is their establishment. Just because I bring my own chef to someone else's restaurant doesn't mean the rules change for me, does it? That chef still has to follow the restaurant owner's instructions. It's his gig.

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    Re: Family: Lakewood church stops woman's funeral because she was gay

    Quote Originally Posted by Cryptic View Post
    There seem to be two very distinct spins on what happened:
    A. "Pastor is a mega jerk" vs
    B. "family forces an avoidable confrontation and turns funeral into a protest"

    Maybe the truth is in the middle?
    The family could not have avoided the confrontation because they were not given advanced warning about the taboo. It was not reasonable for anyone to expect them to hide the fact that the deceased was a lesbian without advanced notice.

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    Re: Family: Lakewood church stops woman's funeral because she was gay

    Quote Originally Posted by 11Bravo View Post
    Well it is their establishment. Just because I bring my own chef to someone else's restaurant doesn't mean the rules change for me, does it? That chef still has to follow the restaurant owner's instructions. It's his gig.
    That is reasonable if the restaurant owner's instructions were provided in advance. This like the restaurant owner requiring vegetarian cooking only after the meal is already in the process of being prepared.

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    Re: Family: Lakewood church stops woman's funeral because she was gay

    Quote Originally Posted by Hard Truth View Post
    That is reasonable if the restaurant owner's instructions were provided in advance. This like the restaurant owner requiring vegetarian cooking only after the meal is already in the process of being prepared.
    It may be reasonable but it's not required. At best, the attendees would get their money back, but the owner isn't in the wrong. I'm not saying I disagree with your views, I'm merely speaking technically. Remember, I stated in the beginning that I disagree with the actions.

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    Re: Family: Lakewood church stops woman's funeral because she was gay

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    "Relatives of a Colorado woman say they were forced to move her funeral – 15 minutes before the scheduled start of the service – over objections to a video showing highlights from the openly lesbian woman’s life.

    Vanessa Collier died Dec. 30 at the age of 33. She was survived by her wife, Christina Higley, as well as the couple’s two children, ages 12 and 7.

    Hundreds of Collier’s closest family and friends packed into New Hope Ministries in Lakewood, Colorado Saturday to celebrate her life. But minutes before the start of the funeral service, relatives say they were shocked to hear that the funeral service would not be able to continue."
    Relatives Livid After Colorado Church Objects to Lesbian's Funeral - ABC News

    You play a little fast and loose with the 'lie' comment. ABC is a pretty liberal site...are they also 'lying'? CNN? USAToday?

    I think you see what you want to see.
    There is nothing in your post or the ABC article that contradicts all the other articles and my posts, except a minor discrepancy in the time line.* The lie being spread by some people in this thread is that the family had advanced notice of the church's policies.

    *the other articles say 15 minutes after the scheduled start time.

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    Re: Family: Lakewood church stops woman's funeral because she was gay

    Quote Originally Posted by Hard Truth View Post
    The family rented the space only and provided their own pastor. There is absolutely no evidence that they warned about the taboo pictures until 15 minutes after the event was schedule to begin. There is no way the video could have been edited quickly enough. The bottom line is that the family was not informed about the taboo until it was too late. The church's pastor chose to ruin the event rather than allow the video to be shown. That makes him a big A-hole. If he provided advanced warning he would still be an A-hole but a smaller one.
    Yes the family rented the church but nowhere have I read they wanted their own pastor to officiate. That's a new one. And if that were so, the pastor would be made known in advance what was acceptable in practice. But then again they claimed that New Hope Ministries did not refund their money and that was a lie too.
    Regardless, the family was not forced to leave the church and have the funeral at the funeral home. It was their choice.
    New Hope Ministries, while described by a local chaplain as welcoming of gays and lesbians, reportedly told Collier's kin that there could be no visible signs in the service that she was gay. It's that love the sinner not the sin adage.

    Moral to the story. Don't rent a church simply out of convenience and expect to do things "your way".

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    Re: Family: Lakewood church stops woman's funeral because she was gay

    Quote Originally Posted by vesper View Post
    Yes the family rented the church but nowhere have I read they wanted their own pastor to officiate. That's a new one. And if that were so, the pastor would be made known in advance what was acceptable in practice. But then again they claimed that New Hope Ministries did not refund their money and that was a lie too.
    Regardless, the family was not forced to leave the church and have the funeral at the funeral home. It was their choice.
    New Hope Ministries, while described by a local chaplain as welcoming of gays and lesbians, reportedly told Collier's kin that there could be no visible signs in the service that she was gay. It's that love the sinner not the sin adage.

    Moral to the story. Don't rent a church simply out of convenience and expect to do things "your way".
    That may be your moral to the story. Mine and I would say most peoples moral of the story is don't engage in wanton behavior and not expect to be called out for it.

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