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Thread: Family: Lakewood church stops woman's funeral because she was gay

  1. #171
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    Re: Family: Lakewood church stops woman's funeral because she was gay

    The more I think about this, the more I don't understand the family here.

    They could have held the funeral at a church of any of the following denominations and had no issues with the church and the fact that the deceased was a lesbian woman:

    American Baptist
    Evangelical Lutheran
    Episcopalian
    Church of Christ
    Metropolitan Community Church
    Presbyterian Church
    Disciples of Christ
    Community of Christ
    Unity Church
    Many mainline protestant churches. Even most Methodist Churches. They could have went to any of those denominations and any of those Churches would have been completely accepting of their daughter and her family. So why on earth did they go the house of bigots to have her funeral? Would you let the Klan conduct a funeral for a black man. It just seems like a slap in the face to this deceased woman to hold her funeral at an anti-gay church.
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    Re: Family: Lakewood church stops woman's funeral because she was gay

    Quote Originally Posted by upsideguy View Post
    Not much difference between celebrating the life of a gay person and celebrating the life of someone on their second marriage (after divorce, which would be to live as an adulterer --- see Matthew 5).... they are pretty similar things in the eyes of God. My guess is this pastor has more of a personal issue with the sin of being gay while giving a complete pass to those living in the adultery or a second (or living together outside of) marriage.

    Yes, all men are sinners and fall short of the glory of God. One does not have to celebrate the sin; but its ok to celebrate the life of the sinner.
    I completely agree. I think that was the churches position. Remove a few pictures and the ceremony goes forward. The family refused. Sad.

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    Re: Family: Lakewood church stops woman's funeral because she was gay

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    Many mainline protestant churches. Even most Methodist Churches. They could have went to any of those denominations and any of those Churches would have been completely accepting of their daughter and her family. So why on earth did they go the house of bigots to have her funeral?
    Probably for cultural reasons.

    Evidenlty, the woman was not a formal member of any church, even a gay friendly one. It is distinctly possible that she,or her partner was of evangelical back ground, and thus turned to that tradition in times of stress. Who knows, the partner may of even been willing to follow the church rules on not displaying particular photographs, but her family might of decided to force the issue.

    Anecdotally, I knew a very nominal Jew whose personal life was at odds with conservative judaism. Though she could have found a progressive synagouge easily, she sought counceling from the conservatives due to her childhood back ground. I doubt they affirmed all aspects of her lifestyle (heterosexual- in fact, very heterosexual). Had she passed away when I knew her, I bet her choice for a funeral would of been conservative, even though she rejected their teachings on sexuality and other things.
    Last edited by Cryptic; 01-15-15 at 12:49 AM.

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    Re: Family: Lakewood church stops woman's funeral because she was gay

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    It certainly can be. If, for example, the woman I happen to feel "love" for at the moment is not the woman I am "married" to, then yes, absolutely, romantic physical intimacy with her is a sin.



    I suppose it would depend upon context - is that the man that she lived with and slept with? If so, then, well, yes.



    Then they should say things like "please do not include celebrations of alcohol in the church", and those who are arranging the funeral should honor that if they want to use the space for the funeral.

    The people who decided to ignore the Church's requests here are the ones who created a problem and attempted to force their preferences on others. Good on the pastor for (hopefully politely) refusing to compromise on principles.


    The Church is called upon both to judge actions and not to celebrate sin.
    Yeah, context is everything. Like adultery. Who knows? Why assume it's not innocent? Why assume the 2 women kissing are in a 'relationship.'

    Apparently these women were not even affiliated with the church. No one would have known.

    And Churches are not called upon to judge and certainly not to mete out punishment. THey may observe and call out sin....but the consequences are, according to the Bible, left up to God.
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    Re: Family: Lakewood church stops woman's funeral because she was gay

    Quote Originally Posted by Cryptic View Post
    Probably for cultural reasons.

    Evidenlty, the woman was not a formal member of any church, even a gay friendly one. It is distinctly possible that she,or her partner was of evangelical back ground, and thus turned to that tradition in times of stress. Who knows, the partner may of even been willing to follow the church rules on not displaying particular photographs, but her family might of decided to force the issue.

    Anecdotally, I knew a very nominal Jew whose personal life was at odds with conservative judaism. Though she could have found a progressive synagouge easily, she sought counceling from the conservatives due to her childhood back ground. I doubt they affirmed all aspects of her lifestyle (heterosexual- in fact, very heterosexual). Had she passed away when I knew her, I bet her choice for a funeral would of been conservative, even though she rejected their teachings on sexuality and other things.
    I am sure there are exceptions, but I think most people would not want anything to do with a church that preached against who they were. Churches are ultimately a business. They depend on people's attendance and money. If you disagree with a church, don't go there, don't give them your money. There are evangelical churches they could have had the funeral at that would not have disapproved of the deceased woman's life and relationships. Why not give them your business?
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    Re: Family: Lakewood church stops woman's funeral because she was gay

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Fabulous View Post
    Knock yourself out.

    There is no doubt more to this story than what has been posted in this thread. The OP was pretty much just an account from the family of the deceased and the other was a paraphrase of his words. If it turns out that the pastor just canned the ceremony in mid-stream because he saw a photo that offended him then that would certainly change my opinion.
    There you go:
    Family: Church in Lakewood stops woman's funeral because she was gay - The Denver Post

    I use whatever info I have at hand to debate things here. This is the info I have on hand.

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    Re: Family: Lakewood church stops woman's funeral because she was gay

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    Yeah, context is everything. Like adultery. Who knows? Why assume it's not innocent? Why assume the 2 women kissing are in a 'relationship.'
    given that that was, in fact, the case, I imagine it was made pretty plain.

    Apparently these women were not even affiliated with the church. No one would have known.
    Yup. Unfortunate, all around. No one is a winner here.

    And Churches are not called upon to judge and certainly not to mete out punishment. THey may observe and call out sin....but the consequences are, according to the Bible, left up to God.
    Churches are called upon explicitly to judge actions, and the "punishment" (as much as it is one) they are directed to mete out is exclusion from the Church.

    Quote Originally Posted by Matthew 18
    15 “If your brother or sister[b] sins,[c] go and point out their fault, just between the two of you. If they listen to you, you have won them over. 16 But if they will not listen, take one or two others along, so that ‘every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.’[d] 17 If they still refuse to listen, tell it to the church; and if they refuse to listen even to the church, treat them as you would a pagan or a tax collector.

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    Re: Family: Lakewood church stops woman's funeral because she was gay

    Quote Originally Posted by nota bene View Post
    I agree: Nobody should be forced to violate his conscience, and I do agree that the pastor didn't create the problem. But I can't imagine stopping a funeral midway. Have you ever attended such a funeral? I haven't. Actually, I've never even attended a wedding during which someone had an answer to that question about there being any reason that this man and this woman should not be joined.

    I think it's awful, and I am sorry for all concerned.
    The funeral was not stopped midway.
    The showing was done at the funeral home and the day of the funeral, the funeral home simply moved the casket and everything else that was in the showing room to the church across the street and set things up. that's normally how it is done. After everything was set up, the family wanted the video of pictures usually provided as a service of the funeral home to be played during the service. The church asked for the video to be edited in order to proceed. The family refused to take the pictures out the church requested. After that the pastor said no. . So everything that was set up at the church was removed and sent back to the funeral home where the service took place. Most funerals are held at the funeral home. But according to the OP the funeral home did not have a big enough room to accommodate the number of people attending the funeral which eventually took place there and the complaints were there was not enough room and many had to stand. But the church across the street did have the seating needed. Unfortunately, they were not willing to abide by the church's requirements.

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    Re: Family: Lakewood church stops woman's funeral because she was gay

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    It's completely reasonable for an organization that owns the building and is permitting them to use it to set standards for what goes on on their property. What's insulting is using a space, completely disrespecting and disregarding the beliefs and rules of the establishment and being unwilling to comply when a host makes a reasonable request like "please don't display this picture because we find it violates X." Just because someone died and they are mourning doesn't give them license to disrespect the property of others nor is anyone or any institution under obligation to bend their morals or rules to accommodate others that don't want to respect such things. I wouldn't expect to have my funeral in a mosque and have the imams and clerics allow my family to display crosses or images depicting Christ as the Son of God or things that they find blasphemous.



    I would agree, I think from a Christian perspective, if expectations weren't given prior to the funeral that out of mercy they should have allowed it while not condoning such a lifestyle or marriage. However, as far as the request or decision of the church being unreasonable, I don't think that it was. I think they were within their rights and the fault is on those refusing to comply with the rules or requests of the host.
    Having been raised in a church - I dismissed that notion entirely that the church leaders, after agreeing to host a funeral, has any right to dictate what they do during the service.

    My father is paid in donations for the funerals he gives the Eulogies at - and he never would dare stick his nose into the issues that are expressly up to the family to decide. The church's role during a funeral is to provide comfort and emotional support and ensure the funeral services runs fluidly and smoothly. If he feels that any event should not be held on church grounds he will assist any family that comes to him in a time of need with setting up alternative arrangements.

    Because as a minister he's a nice and decent person and is not out to stab stakes into the hearts of people.
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    Re: Family: Lakewood church stops woman's funeral because she was gay

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    You are confusing "can" with "should"....there are a lot of things that people "Can" do....but just because you can doesn't always mean that you should.....just sayin.
    Fair point. IMO gays should not belong to anti-gay churches. Frankly I think gays bring some of this down on themselves. You don't see blacks applying to the KKK.

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