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U.S. retail sales post largest decline in 11 months

DA60

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'(Reuters) - U.S. retail sales recorded their largest decline in 11 months in December as demand fell almost across the board, tempering expectations for a sharp acceleration in consumer spending in the fourth quarter.

The Commerce Department said on Wednesday retail sales fell 0.9 percent last month after a 0.4 percent increase in November.

It was the biggest decline since last January and exceeded economists' expectations for only a 0.1 percent drop and implied a slower pace of consumer spending at the end of 2014.'


U.S. retail sales post largest decline in 11 months | Reuters



More QE anybody?
 
Sounds like most people who did their Christmas shopping did it Thanksgiving-Cyber Monday.
 
Meh, I spent $1600 on tires this year so somebody's making out.

Les Schwab mostly.
 
'(Reuters) - U.S. retail sales recorded their largest decline in 11 months in December as demand fell almost across the board, tempering expectations for a sharp acceleration in consumer spending in the fourth quarter.

The Commerce Department said on Wednesday retail sales fell 0.9 percent last month after a 0.4 percent increase in November.

It was the biggest decline since last January and exceeded economists' expectations for only a 0.1 percent drop and implied a slower pace of consumer spending at the end of 2014.'


U.S. retail sales post largest decline in 11 months | Reuters



More QE anybody?

I think most data from the BLS, and the gov't in general, is so massaged as to
qualify as Fairy Tales (no insult to Fairies). Our data is managed the way the
old USSR data was done. The fundamentals of our economy suck. Markets do
not follow supply/demand drivers, ergo they must be manipulated. New jobs are
in crap areas. Home medical, McDs, construction, and all areas of either low
pay or seasonal work. Where is the investment in infrastructure to develop a
base for long term employment? Where are the programs with defined long term
goals i.e. Energy Conservation and Renewables as an infrastructural component?
How about small farms. How about subsidized invention centers. How about
downtown tax credits to compete against strip malls. As for the retail sales, it is
a number reflected by people buying and not easily fixable by gov't shenanigans.
 
I think most data from the BLS, and the gov't in general, is so massaged as to
qualify as Fairy Tales (no insult to Fairies). Our data is managed the way the
old USSR data was done. The fundamentals of our economy suck. Markets do
not follow supply/demand drivers, ergo they must be manipulated. New jobs are
in crap areas. Home medical, McDs, construction, and all areas of either low
pay or seasonal work. Where is the investment in infrastructure to develop a
base for long term employment? Where are the programs with defined long term
goals i.e. Energy Conservation and Renewables as an infrastructural component?
How about small farms. How about subsidized invention centers. How about
downtown tax credits to compete against strip malls. As for the retail sales, it is
a number reflected by people buying and not easily fixable by gov't shenanigans.

The BLS?

Oh...the Bureau Of Labored Statistics. Where creative math is a way of life.
 
'(Reuters) - U.S. retail sales recorded their largest decline in 11 months in December as demand fell almost across the board, tempering expectations for a sharp acceleration in consumer spending in the fourth quarter.

The Commerce Department said on Wednesday retail sales fell 0.9 percent last month after a 0.4 percent increase in November.

It was the biggest decline since last January and exceeded economists' expectations for only a 0.1 percent drop and implied a slower pace of consumer spending at the end of 2014.'


U.S. retail sales post largest decline in 11 months | Reuters

More QE anybody?

QE alone will not handle aggregate demand deficiency. If Aggregate Demand is the sum of Consumer Spending on good and services, Investment in capital goods, Government Spending on public goods and services, and Net Exports (Exports - Imports) then the best we can hope for QE alone to handle is Investment in capital goods by lowering rates and increasing the money supply. Understand just about all the QE going on back to 2008 has been increasing reserves, not actual money in circulation and in the process Debt held by the Fed is up well over 500% since 2008. Roughly $492 Billion in 2008 to well north of $2.705 Trillion at the end of 2014 2Q. The last thing we need is additional QE if no one is doing anything to handle the various economic deficiencies.

For instance, the Labor Participation rate is 62.7% (a 38 year low) and we have 92.9 million Americans no longer in the labor force (an all time record high.) With the government reporting that unemployment is down, we know that "U-6" is still above 11% with no real sign of coming back down below 10% anytime soon. Another for instance, over 2014 we both had a record number and percentage of Americans on one or more forms of government dependence. That "war on poverty" did not turn out so well and with one hell of a cost just to realize dependence in a very permanent way. A last for instance, the conversation we are having in other threads on what is happening to income earnings by quintile as it relates to each being a healthy participant in the economy. The more we move people to the bottom, and keep them at labor rate increases below inflation the more we move money that would speak directly to money velocity right out of the picture.

Our unhealthy economic model has placed us on permanent dependence for the Government Spending part of the equation above. The only way out of this it seems is to do now what we should have done in 2009, shift Government Spending more to infrastructure and technology and then lower regulations in whatever way causes economic growth headwinds. We can no longer afford for Government to squander spending and fill the economy with regulations that put the nation into permanent disability when competing on the world stage. That includes running the highest Corporate Tax rate around with costs that tell businesses to look outside our borders for product. But since we have so much Total Debt now and a Total Debt to GDP ratio above 100%, the only way to handle government spending the right way now economically speaking is to remove government spending the wrong way. Politics will damn near not allow for this but the writing is on the wall with plenty of math to back it up.

Something has to give else we risk staying in this cyclic bubble pop economic model devoid of any control ability and where the model itself is dependent upon government spending to compensate for a decreasing number of middle income earners to take on an increasing amount of debt for wealth in private markets to gamble with. The next pop should be right around the corner, and it may involve currency this time. Not a good thought when considering our fiscal and debt position at the moment.
 
Meh, I spent $1600 on tires this year so somebody's making out.

Les Schwab mostly.

the unexpected expense fairy visited me, too. the Mini decided it needed a new battery. cost : four hundred bucks. for real. :shock:
 
QE alone will not handle aggregate demand deficiency. If Aggregate Demand is the sum of Consumer Spending on good and services, Investment in capital goods, Government Spending on public goods and services, and Net Exports (Exports - Imports) then the best we can hope for QE alone to handle is Investment in capital goods by lowering rates and increasing the money supply. Understand just about all the QE going on back to 2008 has been increasing reserves, not actual money in circulation and in the process Debt held by the Fed is up well over 500% since 2008. Roughly $492 Billion in 2008 to well north of $2.705 Trillion at the end of 2014 2Q. The last thing we need is additional QE if no one is doing anything to handle the various economic deficiencies.

For instance, the Labor Participation rate is 62.7% (a 38 year low) and we have 92.9 million Americans no longer in the labor force (an all time record high.) With the government reporting that unemployment is down, we know that "U-6" is still above 11% with no real sign of coming back down below 10% anytime soon. Another for instance, over 2014 we both had a record number and percentage of Americans on one or more forms of government dependence. That "war on poverty" did not turn out so well and with one hell of a cost just to realize dependence in a very permanent way. A last for instance, the conversation we are having in other threads on what is happening to income earnings by quintile as it relates to each being a healthy participant in the economy. The more we move people to the bottom, and keep them at labor rate increases below inflation the more we move money that would speak directly to money velocity right out of the picture.

Our unhealthy economic model has placed us on permanent dependence for the Government Spending part of the equation above. The only way out of this it seems is to do now what we should have done in 2009, shift Government Spending more to infrastructure and technology and then lower regulations in whatever way causes economic growth headwinds. We can no longer afford for Government to squander spending and fill the economy with regulations that put the nation into permanent disability when competing on the world stage. That includes running the highest Corporate Tax rate around with costs that tell businesses to look outside our borders for product. But since we have so much Total Debt now and a Total Debt to GDP ratio above 100%, the only way to handle government spending the right way now economically speaking is to remove government spending the wrong way. Politics will damn near not allow for this but the writing is on the wall with plenty of math to back it up.

Something has to give else we risk staying in this cyclic bubble pop economic model devoid of any control ability and where the model itself is dependent upon government spending to compensate for a decreasing number of middle income earners to take on an increasing amount of debt for wealth in private markets to gamble with. The next pop should be right around the corner, and it may involve currency this time. Not a good thought when considering our fiscal and debt position at the moment.

For the record...my QE comment was a joke.

I am totally against Keynesian government/Fed stimulus...have been since 2001.
 
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How do you explain this news with the topic. It's a contradiction.

US jobless rate falls to 5.6% in best year since 1999

By Paul HandleyJanuary 9, 2015

Washington (AFP) - The US unemployment rate fell to 5.6 percent in December, the lowest level in six and a half years, as the country capped its best year for job creation since 1999.

US jobless rate falls to 5.6% in best year since 1999
 
How do you explain this news with the topic. It's a contradiction.

It doesn't have to be a contradiction. If the new jobs are low wage and unskilled and the wages are going to catch up on bills that have already been incurred then you can have a drop in unemployment and also a drop in retail sales.

I'm not saying that is what is happening, but consumer spending and unemployment rate are not tied together as you seem to think.
 
How do you explain this news with the topic. It's a contradiction.

You do realize that you can actually have a zero unemployment rate and no one is actually working (thanks to the BLS's creative math)?

Imo, the U-3 rate means NOTHING...it exists purely to keep the ignorant masses placated.
 
For instance, the Labor Participation rate is 62.7% (a 38 year low) and we have 92.9 million Americans no longer in the labor force (an all time record high.)
Not in the Labor Force does not mean "no longer in the labor force". Many have never been in the Labor Force. All Not in the Labor Force means is that the person is neither working nor looking for work. About 93% of those Not in the Labor Force don't want a job. More retirees, more disabled, more people in school, and more stay home spouses (inferred...not directly measurable from monthly states)

With the government reporting that unemployment is down, we know that "U-6" is still above 11% with no real sign of coming back down below 10% anytime soon.
How do you figure that? The U-6 has been dropping right alongside the U-3. It's down from 13.1% in December 2013 to 11.2%
 
You do realize that you can actually have a zero unemployment rate and no one is actually working (thanks to the BLS's creative math)?

I can't resist correcting bad math. The Unemployment rate is Unemployed/Labor Force, and Labor Force is Unemployed plus Employed. So our equation is U/(U+E). If E=0, then the Unemployment rate would be 100%. Only if no one was looking for work would the unemployment rate be zero (if employed was also zero then you'd be dividing by zero (which only Chuck Norris and the Most Interesting Man in the World can do)
 
I can't resist correcting bad math. The Unemployment rate is Unemployed/Labor Force, and Labor Force is Unemployed plus Employed. So our equation is U/(U+E). If E=0, then the Unemployment rate would be 100%. Only if no one was looking for work would the unemployment rate be zero (if employed was also zero then you'd be dividing by zero (which only Chuck Norris and the Most Interesting Man in the World can do)

There is no bad math.

Is it possible that the U-3 rate can be at zero with no one working...YES OR NO?
 
There is no bad math.

Is it possible that the U-3 rate can be at zero with no one working...YES OR NO?

No. I already explained the math: if Employment is zero, then either the numerator and denominator are equal (meaning the result is 100%) or you have 0/0 which is a meaningless equation.

This is 3rd grade math, really. If you think it can occur, please show your math.
 
No. I already explained the math: if Employment is zero, then either the numerator and denominator are equal (meaning the result is 100%) or you have 0/0 which is a meaningless equation.

This is 3rd grade math, really. If you think it can occur, please show your math.

:roll:...Jeez, it's like talking to an obsessed member of a cult.

If no one was working and no one was looking for work, would the the U-3 rate be zero? Yes or no?
 
:roll:...Jeez, it's like talking to an obsessed teenager.

If no one was working and no one was looking for work, would the the U-3 rate be zero? Yes or no?

No. It would be undefined because you would be dividing by zero. Put it into a calculator or Excel...0/0 will give you an error message. What you're trying to say is that if there's no labor market, then there would be no unemployment rate.
 
No. It would be undefined because you would be dividing by zero. Put it into a calculator or Excel...0/0 will give you an error message. What you're trying to say is that if there's no labor market, then there would be no unemployment rate.

Lol...you already inadvertently admitted I am right...'Only if no one was looking for work would the unemployment rate be zero'
And now you cannot even agree with yourself.


Your creepy obsession with the Bureau of Labored Statistics aside...whether you like it or not...the pathetic way the BLS has set up the U-3 number is that if no one is employed in America and no one is officially looking for work then the official U-3 unemployment rate would be zero.

End of story.


Good day.
 
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'(Reuters) - U.S. retail sales recorded their largest decline in 11 months in December as demand fell almost across the board, tempering expectations for a sharp acceleration in consumer spending in the fourth quarter.

The Commerce Department said on Wednesday retail sales fell 0.9 percent last month after a 0.4 percent increase in November.

It was the biggest decline since last January and exceeded economists' expectations for only a 0.1 percent drop and implied a slower pace of consumer spending at the end of 2014.'


U.S. retail sales post largest decline in 11 months | Reuters



More QE anybody?

I don't know if this is relevant or accurate, but is there any impact related to the implementation of the ACA and this being the first year where enrollments are required by year end and plans purchased/paid for generally all at the same time, end of year? I ask because even though the economy in the US is moving ahead faster than ours here in Canada, we had no appreciable decline in consumer spending.
 
Lol...you already inadvertently admitted I am right...'Only if no one was looking for work would the unemployment rate be zero'
And now you cannot even agree with yourself.
What are you talking about? If no one was looking for work AND Employment >0, then the UE rate would be zero. But that's not what you were claiming. You were claiming if no one was employed, then it would be zero, which is untrue. Again.....UE rate = U/(E+U). If E=0, then the rate will be 1 for all cases except U=0, in which case you have an undefined expression.


Your creepy obsession with the Bureau of Labored Statistics aside...whether you like it or not...the pathetic way the BLS has set up the U-3 number is that if no one is employed in America and no one is officially looking for work then the official U-3 unemployment rate would be zero.
What is 0/0? It is NOT 0.

End of story.


Good day.[/QUOTE]
 
Sounds like most people who did their Christmas shopping did it Thanksgiving-Cyber Monday.

I always have my Christmas shopping almost completely done by the end of October, with a few purchases made around Thanksgiving. The only thing I have to do in December is wait for purchases and especially pre-orders to roll in. The majority of presents are wrapped by December 1st.
 
I always have my Christmas shopping almost completely done by the end of October, with a few purchases made around Thanksgiving. The only thing I have to do in December is wait for purchases and especially pre-orders to roll in. The majority of presents are wrapped by December 1st.

I did most of mine on cyber monday week except for a few odd last minute gift cards.
 
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