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2 Albuquerque Officers Charged With Murder

FreedomFromAll said:
This should be interesting.

2 Albuquerque Officers Charged With Murder in March Shooting - ABC News

"Two Albuquerque police officers were charged with murder Monday in the shooting death of a knife-wielding homeless man that led to violent protests and brought new scrutiny to the police department amid a federal investigation.

The decision to bring murder charges occurred at a time when police tactics are under intense review nationwide, fueled by the fatal shooting of an unarmed 18-year-old in Ferguson, Missouri, and the chokehold death of another unarmed man in New York City. Grand juries declined to charge officers in those cases, leading to large protests.

Acknowledging the frustration over the secrecy of the proceedings in those cases, the Albuquerque district attorney said she would bypass the grand jury process and instead present the murder case to a judge at a preliminary hearing that will be open to the public.

"Unlike Ferguson and unlike in New York City, we're going to know. The public is going to have that information," District Attorney Kari Brandenburg said."

boyd1.jpg
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based on the video and autopsy VERY sound decision to go to court and it doesnt look good for the officers
 
AJiveMan said:
Oh, so New Mexico now has a total of three back shooting LE officers and Rangers that we know of.


Park Ranger shoots unarmed camper in back, kills him for not paying camp fee.... gets no jailtime - AR15.Com Archive

And then there were those LE officers who fired shots into a van full of children.

New Mexico, the new and wild frontier. Be careful where you camp if you go there.
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Dont be such a alarmist, That wasnt camping that place is a party spot where a bunch of people from El paso and Albuquerque show up and get into fights. At certain times of the year it has a bunch of wannabe spring break kids running around.

But yea this is a scary place be sure not to come here. lol
 
OrphanSlug said:
Playing devil's advocate for a moment...

Best I can tell from the video 6-7 (2 of the shots were right on top of each other) shots were fired and all at his torso. I am not sure the argument can be made that the officers thought he was alive, or conscious, or in control enough to obey new commands after being shot like that. Not checking for a pulse could go either way on helping the officers case or be used against them.

I am still back to the same conclusion. *After* firing several times they then shot him with beanbags with no response, then they sent the dog in and got no response, then said "he's good," but still said right after "step on that hand real hard," then they moved in to cuff him once motionless, looked for the knife (knives, there may have been another thrown,) and told each other "good job." The video ends but I heard no calls for medical aid, that could be construed as they knew he was dead and it was congratulations time. BTW, there is blood on his back and the rock next to the body.

In this case I see enough evidence to charge these officers with murder. Granted the suspect did not drop all his knives (or the one remaining) but he also did not charge them, seems to me the beanbag shots and perhaps use of the dog would have been the way to deescalate the situation. But, they decided to fire first. This is going to be a tough one for the officers to defend.
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Yeah, that's true. And that's all well and good. But do you actually think they are gonna convict a cop of murder? The system is rigged. Always just drop to your knees and submit to a cop, right or wrong. Defying their Alpha-Dog attitude, or not "respecting their authority," is enough in their mind, to kill you. And the courts, more times than not, (almost enough to say, "always,") gives them their pass. Call it professional loyalty.

Face it. We're ****ed. We live in a police state. Defy that and they will kill you too.

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Lursa said:
What caused his death?
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The video tells us his death was due to getting shot. That's pretty clear.

There's nothing in an autopsy that'll make that go away.
 
Tettsuo said:
The video tells us his death was due to getting shot. That's pretty clear.

There's nothing in an autopsy that'll make that go away.
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I wouldn't be too sure about that.
 
Tettsuo said:
The video tells us his death was due to getting shot. That's pretty clear.

There's nothing in an autopsy that'll make that go away.
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The video did not, not that I could see. Those are the kind of assumptions that lead to silliness in discussions and lack of credibility. It's the kind of assumption that allows crap like Ferguson to occur.

Please tell me how you know he was shot with live ammunition in the video?
 
Lursa said:
The video did not, not that I could see. Those are the kind of assumptions that lead to silliness in discussions and lack of credibility. It's the kind of assumption that allows crap like Ferguson to occur.

Please tell me how you know he was shot with live ammunition in the video?
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Because we know he was shot and killed. That's already been reported.

What would an autopsy say that'll change that?
 
Tettsuo said:
Because we know he was shot and killed. That's already been reported.

What would an autopsy say that'll change that?
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You said 'the video' shows it. Now you are changing your story. We didnt know that the video even showed his death....only what led up to it. Also didnt know if he was shot from the front or in the back....important info.
 
FreedomFromAll said:
This should be interesting.

2 Albuquerque Officers Charged With Murder in March Shooting - ABC News

"Two Albuquerque police officers were charged with murder Monday in the shooting death of a knife-wielding homeless man that led to violent protests and brought new scrutiny to the police department amid a federal investigation.

The decision to bring murder charges occurred at a time when police tactics are under intense review nationwide, fueled by the fatal shooting of an unarmed 18-year-old in Ferguson, Missouri, and the chokehold death of another unarmed man in New York City. Grand juries declined to charge officers in those cases, leading to large protests.

Acknowledging the frustration over the secrecy of the proceedings in those cases, the Albuquerque district attorney said she would bypass the grand jury process and instead present the murder case to a judge at a preliminary hearing that will be open to the public.

"Unlike Ferguson and unlike in New York City, we're going to know. The public is going to have that information," District Attorney Kari Brandenburg said."

boyd1.jpg
Click to expand...

I don't know all the facts of this case, and I am no real fan of Brandenburg, but I think she's right here. Let's keep this as public as possible so there is no question about what actually went down. I wonder if Eric Holder's boys will be showing up here? How about Sharpton and Jackson? Are we to be treated to their rantings? Will these two police officers be tried, convicted, and sentenced in the media as has happened elsewhere? Are we to have riots on the city streets?
 
Lursa said:
You said 'the video' shows it. Now you are changing your story. We didnt know that the video even showed his death....only what led up to it. Also didnt know if he was shot from the front or in the back....important info.
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LOL... the title of the video says what happened! WTF are you talking about?

How exactly is where he was shot important info?

And for the 3rd time - What would an autopsy say that'll change that?
 
tres borrachos said:
Hmmm

The criminal charges were the first Brandenburg has brought against officers in a shooting. She is in her fourth term as district attorney and is waging a fight with the Albuquerque Police Department over allegations that she committed bribery while intervening on behalf of her son in a burglary case.

Police believe she should be charged with bribery because, they say, she offered to pay a victim not to press charges. The attorney general's office is handling the matter.

Brandenburg said the charges against police had nothing to with the agency's investigation into her and that her office got the case long before the bribery claims came to light.


That's a bit of a wrinkle.

I can't watch any of the videos on the shooting itself on this computer but I've read all the posts in here so far and it seems that most posters think this was overkill or overreaction by the police? It will be interesting to see what happens here. Murder? Highly unlikely, but I'll bet the officers will be charged with something.
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Oh, OK. NOW we know... LOL!
 
Tettsuo said:
LOL... the title of the video says what happened! WTF are you talking about?

How exactly is where he was shot important info?

And for the 3rd time - What would an autopsy say that'll change that?
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Good display of a lack of understanding of use of lethal force and self-defense.

Esp. odd since you were aware of the questions from the Ferguson case and the impact of the autopsy results.

Odd
 
FreedomFromAll said:
Dont be such a alarmist, That wasnt camping that place is a party spot where a bunch of people from El paso and Albuquerque show up and get into fights. At certain times of the year it has a bunch of wannabe spring break kids running around.

But yea this is a scary place be sure not to come here. lol
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I lived in NM for 5 years, only had one run in with a wannabe campground host and ranger.

People from El Paso are the problem, :roll: I heard Texans were a big problem in New Mexico, they also drive like there's no tomorrow, :2razz:

NM should hang signage saying they're unfriendly to anyone from out of state. I do know that NM state troopers are bigger dickheads than anywhere I've ever visited, except for Alabama, and those take the cake.
 
Lursa said:
Good display of a lack of understanding of use of lethal force and self-defense.
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I won't speak for him, but I agree in that if the autopsy had indicated he was shot in the lower stomach or chest (instead of clearly being shot in the BACK), it wouldn't make this a righteous shooting. '

The fact that the fatal bullet was through his lower back makes what is a terrible case for the shooters worse, but not much more than that.

I suppose if he'd died from striking his head on a rock, that would change the facts enough to affect the conclusion, but given he was killed by gunshots, I don't see any way to look at the video and conclude those shots should have been fired.
 
JasperL said:
I won't speak for him, but I agree in that if the autopsy had indicated he was shot in the lower stomach or chest (instead of clearly being shot in the BACK), it wouldn't make this a righteous shooting. '

.
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No one ever said that it would.
 
Lursa said:
No one ever said that it would.
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The point is I'm not at all clear what autopsy findings would clear the officers. But I'll drop it - we have the autopsy so speculating on what it shows or doesn't show is kind of pointless at this point. He was shot in the back, that shot killed him, which is the worst possible result for the officers involved.
 
JasperL said:
The point is I'm not at all clear what autopsy findings would clear the officers. But I'll drop it - we have the autopsy so speculating on what it shows or doesn't show is kind of pointless at this point. He was shot in the back, that shot killed him, which is the worst possible result for the officers involved.
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I was only talking about making judgments from what's seen and heard on video. That is the only point I was trying to make from that conversation.
 
JasperL said:
The point is I'm not at all clear what autopsy findings would clear the officers. But I'll drop it - we have the autopsy so speculating on what it shows or doesn't show is kind of pointless at this point. He was shot in the back, that shot killed him, which is the worst possible result for the officers involved.
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A moot point at this point, but if the autopsy had shown no gunshot wounds, and death was a result
of the fall from the beanbag impacts, it might reflect different.
 
longview said:
As far as this case, some of it will come down to if the suspect had bullet holes in him.
If only non-lethal rounds were used, this may just be a case of overzealous police,
but not murder. That the DA chose not to take this in front of a grand jury is saying something.
The larger concern would be the use of the body camera data to prosecute the Police.
The police have a ugly job to do, and yes it can be violent.
Outsiders watching a video, may not comprehend the level of danger in an
incident, and therefore may conclude it is an over reaction.
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Overzealous police resulting in death: murder (manslaughter).
 
AlbqOwl said:
I don't know all the facts of this case, and I am no real fan of Brandenburg, but I think she's right here. Let's keep this as public as possible so there is no question about what actually went down. I wonder if Eric Holder's boys will be showing up here? How about Sharpton and Jackson? Are we to be treated to their rantings? Will these two police officers be tried, convicted, and sentenced in the media as has happened elsewhere? Are we to have riots on the city streets?
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I dont like her, but I applaud her ball's on this one. You are right it is good that she put this all out in the open. And I am also glad that she waited until the occupiers packed up and went home. She waited a decent amount of time so the people blocking freeways cant claim victory. But they will probably be back to beat their chests. I doubt that those that you mentioned will bother coming to New Mexico for much of anything. Lets hope at least that they dont, we dont need roiters and misfits, we have plenty of misfits as it is.
 
upsideguy said:
Overzealous police resulting in death: murder (manslaughter).
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More info has come out, but without intent, murder might be a stretch.
Since there was lethal force used, and at least one of the police stated an intent to
escalate, I think that is enough to take to a grand Jury.
 
AJiveMan said:
I lived in NM for 5 years, only had one run in with a wannabe campground host and ranger.

People from El Paso are the problem, :roll: I heard Texans were a big problem in New Mexico, they also drive like there's no tomorrow, :2razz:

NM should hang signage saying they're unfriendly to anyone from out of state. I do know that NM state troopers are bigger dickheads than anywhere I've ever visited, except for Alabama, and those take the cake.
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The bordering State is always the problem lol

I havent had any problems with cops here other than one late night coming home, it was beer thirty and assumed that I had just left a bar. I am not good at standing on one foot at 3am reciting the alphabet backwards. As far as Staters, only been pulled over once by them and I asked him to give me a break so he did.
 
Lursa said:
Good display of a lack of understanding of use of lethal force and self-defense.

Esp. odd since you were aware of the questions from the Ferguson case and the impact of the autopsy results.

Odd
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For the 4th time now - What would an autopsy say that'll change that?

'That' being the fact he was killed by gunshots as the title of the video says.
 
longview said:
More info has come out, but without intent, murder might be a stretch.
Since there was lethal force used, and at least one of the police stated an intent to
escalate, I think that is enough to take to a grand Jury.
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Intent isn't a stretch at all. They came out with way more hardware than needed for a vagrancy charge. Then, when the man was clearly giving up, they shot a flash-bang at him. They were clearly looking to escalate the situation.
 
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