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Thread: Exclusive: Cuba has freed all 53 prisoners as agreed in U.S. deal - U.S. officials

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    Re: Exclusive: Cuba has freed all 53 prisoners as agreed in U.S. deal - U.S. official

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    Your arguments are absurd and at least you should answer what you quote as answering. The difference is China had things we need, where Cuba does not. China is a world leader, sits on the UNSC with us, Cuba, not even close.
    China was far from a world leader in 1972. It was a 3rd world country where tens of millions were dying from starvation and Mao's cultural reform. We didn't "need them" anymore than we do now considering the fact that they don't really buy from us as much we buy from them. Cheap, worthless, goods at that. We don't "need" them, they "need" us.

    No misinterpretation, you're all for getting in bed with Cuba while it is still under a dictatorship. You don't want to discuss it because you got busted, your argument is broken. And yes, I dare say it is the first time. We do say that in many instances throughout our history, that we are opening relations to extend freedom and democracy, but it is not true at the heart of it. Foreign relations and foreign policy are about quid pro quo.
    Lmao, the laughably ridiculous statement continues. My statement was about opening up discussions with the Cuban government with the ultimate goal of showing the Cuban people a different road. If you think that is "getting in bed with a dictatorship", you're more blissfully ignorant than I originally thought.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    Re: Exclusive: Cuba has freed all 53 prisoners as agreed in U.S. deal - U.S. official

    Quote Originally Posted by MMC View Post
    Afternoon Hatuey. From what I have read.....that can be done immediately as soon as the Castros' hold a democratic election. Do you think when it comes to this point. That Cuba has known this for the longest of time? That all it took to open up negotiations was for them to hold a Democratic Election?
    The Chinese haven't opened up democratic elections, so I doubt that would even be a reasonable argument by the US administration at this point. Hell, the US has never held that standard for any government for us to hold talks with them (see: Hussain, Mobutu, Pinochet, Suharto, Mubarak, etc.). I think what we'll ask for primarily is more economic freedoms for the average Cuban and will counter with fewer economic restrictions on our side for the average Cuban living in the US. I think those two things will go a long way towards helping Cubans. They're definitely far more helpful than what hasn't worked for 50 years.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    Re: Exclusive: Cuba has freed all 53 prisoners as agreed in U.S. deal - U.S. official

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    China was far from a world leader in 1972. It was a 3rd world country where tens of millions were dying from starvation and Mao's cultural reform. We didn't "need them" anymore than we do now considering the fact that they don't really buy from us as much we buy from them. Cheap, worthless, goods at that. We don't "need" them, they "need" us.
    So, it's your position that China was not a world power in 1972, didn't sit on the UNSC and that the US wasn't very, very interested in trade with them. All I can say to that is your are wrong and I believe history is on my side in this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Lmao, the laughably ridiculous statement continues. My statement was about opening up discussions with the Cuban government with the ultimate goal of showing the Cuban people a different road. If you think that is "getting in bed with a dictatorship", you're more blissfully ignorant than I originally thought.
    Opening up discussions and ending sanctions is indeed getting in bed with dictators in this case, and you know it. Try to run from your own arguments all you wish. Again, nothing to gain for us to motivate us to do that.

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    Re: Exclusive: Cuba has freed all 53 prisoners as agreed in U.S. deal - U.S. official

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    The Chinese haven't opened up democratic elections, so I doubt that would even be a reasonable argument by the US administration at this point. Hell, the US has never held that standard for any government for us to hold talks with them (see: Hussain, Mobutu, Pinochet, Suharto, Mubarak, etc.). I think what we'll ask for primarily is more economic freedoms for the average Cuban and will counter with fewer economic restrictions on our side for the average Cuban living in the US. I think those two things will go a long way towards helping Cubans. They're definitely far more helpful than what hasn't worked for 50 years.
    So, this is all about patience? And the lack of for this administration? Look, I'd love to see Cuba finally do right by its people, and let them decide how to go forward...But that isn't what is going on here....Obama needed a foreign policy win to show that he wasn't a total buffoon on the world stage, so he picked the low hanging fruit, and did something that won't work in the end because it has zero chance of congress upholding what is needed to make this happen...So in the end, all Obama got was a headline, that left some asking if he even knows why sanctions were there in the first place....
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    Re: Exclusive: Cuba has freed all 53 prisoners as agreed in U.S. deal - U.S. official

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    So, it's your position that China was not a world power in 1972 and that the US wasn't very, very interested in trade with them.
    Ummm, China wasn't a world power in 1972. Are you even serious?

    Economic history of China (1949-present)
    Cultural Revolution - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    China was practically in ruins after the Cultural Revolution. You know, if you're going to be THIS uninformed, you REALLY shouldn't be discussing the issue. China destroyed much of its culture, and it basically engaged in the 4th century metallurgy as an effort to "reform itself" economically. Really, you're putting your ignorance on this subject on FULL display.

    Opening up discussions and ending sanctions is indeed getting in bed with dictators in this case, and you know it.
    Utter nonsense as these sanctions actually hurt the common people far more than they hurt the dictators. Your lies don't change that.
    Last edited by Hatuey; 01-12-15 at 03:16 PM.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    Re: Exclusive: Cuba has freed all 53 prisoners as agreed in U.S. deal - U.S. official

    53 less mouths to feed.

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    Re: Exclusive: Cuba has freed all 53 prisoners as agreed in U.S. deal - U.S. official

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    So, this is all about patience? And the lack of for this administration? Look, I'd love to see Cuba finally do right by its people, and let them decide how to go forward...But that isn't what is going on here....Obama needed a foreign policy win to show that he wasn't a total buffoon on the world stage, so he picked the low hanging fruit, and did something that won't work in the end because it has zero chance of congress upholding what is needed to make this happen...So in the end, all Obama got was a headline, that left some asking if he even knows why sanctions were there in the first place....
    Tell us, how is the average Chinese person doing after the country opened up talks with the US? Do you believe they're doing worse today? Or do you believe they were better off before 1972?
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    Re: Exclusive: Cuba has freed all 53 prisoners as agreed in U.S. deal - U.S. official

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    So, this is all about patience? And the lack of for this administration? Look, I'd love to see Cuba finally do right by its people, and let them decide how to go forward...But that isn't what is going on here....Obama needed a foreign policy win to show that he wasn't a total buffoon on the world stage, so he picked the low hanging fruit, and did something that won't work in the end because it has zero chance of congress upholding what is needed to make this happen...So in the end, all Obama got was a headline, that left some asking if he even knows why sanctions were there in the first place....


    And yet, Cuba HAS done what it said it would do according to the agreement in Ottawa, a act the American right seems to consider irrelevant. And while they also rant on about certain human rights abuses, the US trades openly with South Korea and has said nothing about the salt mines in the south islands where the blind and diabled are used as slave labour.

    The US also has cozy relations with Saudi Arabia who annually behead more people than ISIS. So why pick on little Cuba when on that very island the US has a military base the UN says is illegal and tortures people who have been denied due process through a Dick Cheney invented technicality. A trick Obama has continued despite promises to close Gitmo altogether.

    It's time to look in the mirror instead of preaching to a people the US has been actively trying to destroy for 45 years.
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    Re: Exclusive: Cuba has freed all 53 prisoners as agreed in U.S. deal - U.S. official

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    The Chinese haven't opened up democratic elections, so I doubt that would even be a reasonable argument by the US administration at this point. Hell, the US has never held that standard for any government for us to hold talks with them (see: Hussain, Mobutu, Pinochet, Suharto, Mubarak, etc.). I think what we'll ask for primarily is more economic freedoms for the average Cuban and will counter with fewer economic restrictions on our side for the average Cuban living in the US. I think those two things will go a long way towards helping Cubans. They're definitely far more helpful than what hasn't worked for 50 years.

    Well, that was until Clinton and Congress declared it to be that way with Helms Burton.


    Rep. Ileana Ros-Lehtinen (R., Fla.), a vocal critic of the Castro regime, said in a Wednesday statement that it was possible that the actions by the White House violated a number of Cuba-related laws passed previously by Congress.

    “The White House attempts to normalize relationships with Cuba without the approval of Congress may be in direct violation of Helms-Burton that specifically states that all political prisoners must be released and free and fair elections must be held before establishing a diplomatic relationship,” she said.....snip~

    How Congress Could Stymie Obama’s Cuba Plan - Washington Wire - WSJ

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    Re: Exclusive: Cuba has freed all 53 prisoners as agreed in U.S. deal - U.S. official

    Quote Originally Posted by MMC View Post
    Well, that was until Clinton and Congress declared it to be that way with Helms Burton.

    Rep. Ileana Ros-Lehtinen (R., Fla.), a vocal critic of the Castro regime, said in a Wednesday statement that it was possible that the actions by the White House violated a number of Cuba-related laws passed previously by Congress.

    “The White House attempts to normalize relationships with Cuba without the approval of Congress may be in direct violation of Helms-Burton that specifically states that all political prisoners must be released and free and fair elections must be held before establishing a diplomatic relationship,” she said.....snip~

    How Congress Could Stymie Obama’s Cuba Plan - Washington Wire - WSJ
    You're right, however, as it stands, the Obama administration is getting the Cuban government do exactly what is in that law and release political prisoners.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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