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Thread: Most of America’s rich think the poor have it easy

  1. #241
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    Re: Most of America’s rich think the poor have it easy

    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    Sounds to me like you think that if you don't have any money, you should be able to commit violations with impunity. Can't fine you. Can't jail you. You aren't going to pay and you don't figure the court should be able to make you. Maybe you are inclined to institute caning as a good compromise? Then you could choose between paying, sitting in jail for a few days, or just taking a few whacks with a cane. How about that? What about if the judge decreed that your EBT get reduced to cover the fine for your violation?

    Nah, I'll bet you don't go for that, either. You really just figure the least we can give the deadbeats of the world is the right to commit petty crimes without risk of any punishment.
    Jailing someone for jaywalking or a parking violation is ridiculous.

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    Re: Most of America’s rich think the poor have it easy

    Quote Originally Posted by rabbitcaebannog View Post
    Jailing someone for jaywalking or a parking violation is ridiculous.
    I think it's much more ridiculous to believe that paying fines for violations you've committed is optional. Oh, well, since you don't want to pay, then nevermind. Right? Yeah, let 'em violate the law with impunity if they're poor because it's just not fair to punish the poor little dears.

    It would be funny if a drunk homeless guy set up shop in front of your house and started using your stoop to relieve himself every morning. Can't do anything about it because he can't pay a fine and you can't toss him in jail for a night because he won't pay it. All they can do is just keep telling him "you can't do that" and he can keep giving them the finger because bleeding heart libbies don't think he should be punished.

    It would be poetic justice.
    Last edited by Papa bull; 01-18-15 at 11:18 AM.
    You can't reason anyone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into in the first place.

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    Re: Most of America’s rich think the poor have it easy

    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    I think it's much more ridiculous to believe that paying fines for violations you've committed is optional. Oh, well, since you don't want to pay, then nevermind. Right? Yeah, let 'em violate the law with impunity if they're poor because it's just not fair to punish the poor little dears.

    It would be funny if a drunk homeless guy set up shop in front of your house and started using your stoop to relieve himself every morning. Can't do anything about it because he can't pay a fine and you can't toss him in jail for a night because he won't pay it. All they can do is just keep telling him "you can't do that" and he can keep giving them the finger because bleeding heart libbies don't think he should be punished.

    It would be poetic justice.
    So, now you are doubling down and want to arrest homeless people? I'm not really interested in your strawman. Obviously, you have proven my first point which was I don't doubt there are people on this board that would like nothing better than to bring back debtor prisons.

    Here is an interesting fact:
    A study done at Harvard University indicates that this is the biggest cause of bankruptcy, representing 62% of all personal bankruptcies. One of the interesting caveats of this study shows that 78% of filers had some form of health insurance, thus bucking the myth that medical bills affect only the uninsured.

    Rare or serious diseases or injuries can easily result in hundreds of thousands of dollars in medical bills - bills that can quickly wipe out savings and retirement accounts, college education funds and home equity. Once these have been exhausted, bankruptcy may be the only shelter left, regardless of whether the patient or his or her family was able to apply health coverage to a portion of the bill or not. Top 5 Reasons Why People Go Bankrupt

    That's not even touching on the subject of loosing a job etc...

  4. #244
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    Re: Most of America’s rich think the poor have it easy

    Quote Originally Posted by rabbitcaebannog View Post
    So, now you are doubling down and want to arrest homeless people? I'm not really interested in your strawman. Obviously, you have proven my first point which was I don't doubt there are people on this board that would like nothing better than to bring back debtor prisons.

    Here is an interesting fact:
    A study done at Harvard University indicates that this is the biggest cause of bankruptcy, representing 62% of all personal bankruptcies. One of the interesting caveats of this study shows that 78% of filers had some form of health insurance, thus bucking the myth that medical bills affect only the uninsured.

    Rare or serious diseases or injuries can easily result in hundreds of thousands of dollars in medical bills - bills that can quickly wipe out savings and retirement accounts, college education funds and home equity. Once these have been exhausted, bankruptcy may be the only shelter left, regardless of whether the patient or his or her family was able to apply health coverage to a portion of the bill or not. Top 5 Reasons Why People Go Bankrupt

    That's not even touching on the subject of loosing a job etc...
    Don't go littering this discussion with red herrings about bankruptcy. Even the article you're trying to use as support said straight up that no one was put in jail for NOT PAYING THEIR DEBTS, but for contempt of court and refusal to pay fines.

    Your position is that if you don't have money, you shouldn't have to abide by the same rules everyone else does, and so you can jaywalk all you want and refuse to come to court hearings and refuse to pay fines and refuse to do anything you don't want to do. You think that being broke gives you carte blanche on petty crime with complete impunity.

    Stick to that and don't deflect with your rants about the causes of bankruptcy.

    I still think you'd be able to see things a little differently if someone started crapping on your porch every day and flipping you the bird every time you opened your door and stepped in it. I think you'd change your mind about just how swell it is for people to be able to be as much of a nuisance as they'd like with complete impunity if that happened to you.
    You can't reason anyone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into in the first place.

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    Re: Most of America’s rich think the poor have it easy

    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    Don't go littering this discussion with red herrings about bankruptcy. Even the article you're trying to use as support said straight up that no one was put in jail for NOT PAYING THEIR DEBTS, but for contempt of court and refusal to pay fines.

    Your position is that if you don't have money, you shouldn't have to abide by the same rules everyone else does, and so you can jaywalk all you want and refuse to come to court hearings and refuse to pay fines and refuse to do anything you don't want to do. You think that being broke gives you carte blanche on petty crime with complete impunity.

    Stick to that and don't deflect with your rants about the causes of bankruptcy.

    I still think you'd be able to see things a little differently if someone started crapping on your porch every day and flipping you the bird every time you opened your door and stepped in it. I think you'd change your mind about just how swell it is for people to be able to be as much of a nuisance as they'd like with complete impunity if that happened to you.
    None of your rant addresses what I stated to another poster who gave me a link about debtor prisons including your rant about homeless people.

    The bankruptcy link I gave does have to do with how many people in this country become poor and lose it all. Should they become indentured servants? That was my original point. Another poster gave a link to how some states do put people in jail for not being able to pay fines (they don't go to prison for the actual crime of jaywalking or not paying a parking ticket). The crime is not paying for the fine. I'm sure there are much better ways to handle that then prison. I responded with I agree that is sad. I do suppose that might be another topic but I was merely responding to OP and it surely doesn't surprise me some have the attitude that not having money to pay for a fine should be sent to a jail cell. Your posts speak for themselves about your attitude and the poor.

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    Re: Most of America’s rich think the poor have it easy

    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    I think it's much more ridiculous to believe that paying fines for violations you've committed is optional. Oh, well, since you don't want to pay, then nevermind. Right? Yeah, let 'em violate the law with impunity if they're poor because it's just not fair to punish the poor little dears.
    Garnish wages. Jail ain't necessary. Government has all sorts of tools through which it can exert its force.

    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    It would be funny if a drunk homeless guy set up shop in front of your house and started using your stoop to relieve himself every morning. Can't do anything about it because he can't pay a fine and you can't toss him in jail for a night because he won't pay it. All they can do is just keep telling him "you can't do that" and he can keep giving them the finger because bleeding heart libbies don't think he should be punished.

    It would be poetic justice.
    What do you want, you want to jail a crazy homeless guy for being misfortunate enough to be homeless? Not really the Christian thing to do. Also, take him for a night, what if he comes back later? How long are you willing to throw a man in jail for being homeless?
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

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    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  7. #247
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    Re: Most of America’s rich think the poor have it easy

    Quote Originally Posted by Scrabaholic View Post
    Who in their right mind would choose to live a subsistence lifestyle????
    Anyone who hates working more than living on the tax payer dime and that would be one hell of a lot of people. Ever hear the term "freeloader"?

    Freeloader

    Someone who sits around and dosen't work and mooches off their family and steals all their moms hard earned money to do nothing all day and contribute **** to society. Someone who is a waste of air and takes up valuable space on the planet earth.

    Urban Dictionary: freeloader


    1. (slang) a person who habitually depends on the charity of others for food, shelter, etc

    Freeloader | Define Freeloader at Dictionary.com


    The term "Freeloader" in everyday speech refers to a "mooch" or a schnorrer. The technical term for such a person is a free rider.

    Freeloader - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Liberals - Punish the Successful, Reward the Unsuccessful
    Liberals - Tax, Borrow, Spend, and Give Free Stuff
    Obama's legacy - President Donald Trump

  8. #248
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    Re: Most of America’s rich think the poor have it easy

    Quote Originally Posted by Unrepresented View Post
    We both pay taxes. We both are allowed to use public goods and services regardless of what we've paid. You can drive on any street in any town in any state without being denied for the amount of taxes you've paid. You'll never be stopped at an intersection and told "you've driven as far as your $63,000 taxable income permits."
    That's true, and for that I bring goods that you want and need to market so that your life can become easier, and well maintained...And, instead of recognizing that my sacrifices of doing this, with its long hours, extended time away from family, and general frustrations of trips on open highways with the inconsiderate in the general population, your response is one of somehow taking credit for building the roads? Well let me tell you buddy, It is me that should be saying that to you considering the lopsided level of taxation I pay compared to you, and the benefit you receive having me deliver your stuff.
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

  9. #249
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    Re: Most of America’s rich think the poor have it easy

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    That's true, and for that I bring goods that you want and need to market so that your life can become easier, and well maintained...And, instead of recognizing that my sacrifices of doing this, with its long hours, extended time away from family, and general frustrations of trips on open highways with the inconsiderate in the general population, your response is one of somehow taking credit for building the roads? Well let me tell you buddy, It is me that should be saying that to you considering the lopsided level of taxation I pay compared to you, and the benefit you receive having me deliver your stuff.
    So let's just examine what goes into the roads you're traveling:

    1) They're designed by the government
    2) They're designed by the government to connect with other roads
    3) They're designed and maintained by the government to withstand your vehicle traveling over them.
    4) They're designed and maintained by the government to interfere minimally with drainage, pedestrian travels, wildlife, emergencies, weather, and safety
    5) They're patrolled by enforcement who aims to ensure safe travel by both you and the non-professional drivers you share the roads with
    6) They include regulations and enforcement that limit the type and condition of vehicles that can safely be operated
    7) They work in combination with alternative roads to ensure that multiple routes are available to reach almost any destination
    8) They include alternative transportation options to reduce travelers you're sharing the road with
    9) They're generally free for all to use with the exception of toll roads and bridges, rather than requiring direct capital investments by every user in advance of travels.
    Etc. Etc.

    Now, all those things that make roads safer, are extended to almost every other aspect of life. The doctor who keeps you healthy got there by studying at an American university, which was likely publicly subsidized, and his loans and tuition were subsidized, and his license to practice was ensured to meet critical expectations by the government, the tools and pills he gives you to keep you healthy were all verified as safe by the government, etc. etc. etc.

    All of your interactions in the world likely involve the government directly, or indirectly, but they all are ideally making you safer, keeping you healthier, and providing you with more stability. It's easy to take for granted just how consistent and easily navigable our country is, but it wouldn't be like this without oversight, planning, and enforcement.

  10. #250
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    Re: Most of America’s rich think the poor have it easy

    Quote Originally Posted by Unrepresented View Post
    So let's just examine what goes into the roads you're traveling:

    1) They're designed by the government
    2) They're designed by the government to connect with other roads
    3) They're designed and maintained by the government to withstand your vehicle traveling over them.
    4) They're designed and maintained by the government to interfere minimally with drainage, pedestrian travels, wildlife, emergencies, weather, and safety
    5) They're patrolled by enforcement who aims to ensure safe travel by both you and the non-professional drivers you share the roads with
    6) They include regulations and enforcement that limit the type and condition of vehicles that can safely be operated
    7) They work in combination with alternative roads to ensure that multiple routes are available to reach almost any destination
    8) They include alternative transportation options to reduce travelers you're sharing the road with
    9) They're generally free for all to use with the exception of toll roads and bridges, rather than requiring direct capital investments by every user in advance of travels.
    Etc. Etc.

    Now, all those things that make roads safer, are extended to almost every other aspect of life. The doctor who keeps you healthy got there by studying at an American university, which was likely publicly subsidized, and his loans and tuition were subsidized, and his license to practice was ensured to meet critical expectations by the government, the tools and pills he gives you to keep you healthy were all verified as safe by the government, etc. etc. etc.

    All of your interactions in the world likely involve the government directly, or indirectly, but they all are ideally making you safer, keeping you healthier, and providing you with more stability. It's easy to take for granted just how consistent and easily navigable our country is, but it wouldn't be like this without oversight, planning, and enforcement.
    Yep, and I pay more than you for these roads, then should I say that you shouldn't be able to travel them?
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

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