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Thread: Muslim worker at Paris kosher grocer saved customers from gunman by [W:186, 217, 273]

  1. #291
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    Re: Muslim worker at Paris kosher grocer saved customers from gunman by [W:186, 217,

    Nobody believes the problem is the entirety of the Muslim population.

    However, it's estimated to be about 25-30 percent of Muslims that are active or support radical Islam.

    In other words, about 400,000,000 of them believe in Sharia law and support the actions of radicals.

    Now what do we do about that?

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    Re: Muslim worker at Paris kosher grocer saved customers from gunman by [W:186, 217,

    I think this is something we are supposed to pretend doesn't really exist. The sooner people actually start believing that this is a real threat and shows no signs of dissipating, the better off we will be.
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    Re: Muslim worker at Paris kosher grocer saved customers from gunman by hiding [W:186

    Quote Originally Posted by Henry David View Post
    I agree. Still though, I wonder if a failure to condemn any particular action is tantamount to condoning that action? Especially if a person or group claims the moral high ground as part of its existence?
    It doesn't matter to me if it can be perceived as condoning it or not. I don't think the church should have ANY influence politically speaking, and in reality, it doesn't. It is not their business to influence political decisions, and if you are trying to imply that they have some sort of moral responsibility to get involved in political and legal issues, and to set an example, I disagree wholeheartedly. Keep the church and state STRICTLY separated.

    That is one of the principles our country was founded on. I have no problem with individuals saying what they think or what they believe, but I don't consider religious institutions to be legitimate political or legal influences.
    "God is the name by which I designate all things which cross my path violently and recklessly, all things which alter my plans and intentions, and change the course of my life, for better or for worse."
    -C G Jung

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    Re: Muslim worker at Paris kosher grocer saved customers from gunman by hiding [W:186

    Quote Originally Posted by PoS View Post
    Saudi Arabia should have their own troops protecting their country, they can afford it after all.

    And as far as discriminating against Muslims, it doesnt matter if its a religion or a race or a culture. Racism is racism.
    In 1990 Iraq fielded the fourth largest army in the world. It would have taken years for Saudi Arabia to match that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Muslim worker at Paris kosher grocer saved customers from gunman by hiding [W:186

    Quote Originally Posted by lizzie View Post
    It doesn't matter to me if it can be perceived as condoning it or not. I don't think the church should have ANY influence politically speaking, and in reality, it doesn't. It is not their business to influence political decisions, and if you are trying to imply that they have some sort of moral responsibility to get involved in political and legal issues, and to set an example, I disagree wholeheartedly. Keep the church and state STRICTLY separated.

    That is one of the principles our country was founded on. I have no problem with individuals saying what they think or what they believe, but I don't consider religious institutions to be legitimate political or legal influences.
    Religious orgs have just as much right to influence politics as any other special interest group.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Muslim worker at Paris kosher grocer saved customers from gunman by hiding [W:186

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiggen View Post
    Well, one difference would be tens of millions of radical Muslims and their sympathizers on one hand and a handful of fundamentalist Christian nuts on the other. Let me know when an army of radical Christians takes over parts of two countries and begins beheading non-believers and we might have some basis for discussion.
    Embrace you inner fear sir, and maybe wallow in it too. Be really fearful of ISIS because they may ride their camels and jeeps across the globe to attack us.

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    Re: Muslim worker at Paris kosher grocer saved customers from gunman by hiding [W:186

    Quote Originally Posted by lizzie View Post
    It doesn't matter to me if it can be perceived as condoning it or not. I don't think the church should have ANY influence politically speaking, and in reality, it doesn't. It is not their business to influence political decisions, and if you are trying to imply that they have some sort of moral responsibility to get involved in political and legal issues, and to set an example, I disagree wholeheartedly. Keep the church and state STRICTLY separated.

    That is one of the principles our country was founded on. I have no problem with individuals saying what they think or what they believe, but I don't consider religious institutions to be legitimate political or legal influences.
    It matters to me ONLY as insight into human behavior. Nothing more. You and I are in complete agreement as to separation of church and state.

    However from the psychological and sociological perspective, and from the philosophical perspective, it seems to me that those claiming the moral high ground because of their religion are on very shaky ground if they cannot find the courage or motivation to condemn in public the actions of their fellow practitioners who act in an immoral fashion, whatever the case.

    If the upper echelons of any religious organization stands silent as its members murder in the name of The Higher Entity, then that organization has no credibility IMO.

    To my knowledge, the only religious outfit on the Christian side to condemn torture or war or certain other things is the Unitarian group. I'm pretty sure that certain muslim leaders have condemned in public what happened in Paris last week.

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    Re: Muslim worker at Paris kosher grocer saved customers from gunman by hiding [W:186

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Religious orgs have just as much right to influence politics as any other special interest group.
    I didn't say they don't have a right. The poster I am responding to is trying to imply that churches have a moral obligation in this situation, with regard to "condoning" certain actions, and I don't believe that the church should be influencing the state at all, nor do I think that the church has any obligation to the state. It's wise to be careful about just what you think the role of the church is in a democratic society, and in this specific discussion, take a look at just what the poster is suggesting. Don't be easily sucked into a position that you don't actually support.
    "God is the name by which I designate all things which cross my path violently and recklessly, all things which alter my plans and intentions, and change the course of my life, for better or for worse."
    -C G Jung

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    Re: Muslim worker at Paris kosher grocer saved customers from gunman by hiding [W:186

    Quote Originally Posted by Henry David View Post
    To my knowledge, the only religious outfit on the Christian side to condemn torture or war or certain other things is the Unitarian group. I'm pretty sure that certain muslim leaders have condemned in public what happened in Paris last week.
    The bolded implies to me, that they aren't interested from a political perspective, which is a good thing imo. As for the Muslim leaders, good for them, but either way, it doesn't really matter to me. ISIS isn't comprised of reasonable people who can be reasoned with.
    "God is the name by which I designate all things which cross my path violently and recklessly, all things which alter my plans and intentions, and change the course of my life, for better or for worse."
    -C G Jung

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    Re: Muslim worker at Paris kosher grocer saved customers from gunman by hiding [W:186

    Quote Originally Posted by lizzie View Post
    The bolded implies to me, that they aren't interested from a political perspective, which is a good thing imo. As for the Muslim leaders, good for them, but either way, it doesn't really matter to me. ISIS isn't comprised of reasonable people who can be reasoned with.
    I agree. The Unitarians speak not from a political perspective, but rather from a moral perspective--knowing and speaking about the difference between right and wrong. Personally, as a fallen-away Catholic, I find that rather refreshing in this day and age.

    And of course the simple truth is that neither you nor I actually know anything about ISIS that we have not 'learned' from the mainstream media. We "know" only what we've been told. That is not to defend the outfit, not at all, but only to keep things in perspective as to what is actually known compared to what is said.

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