• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Muslim worker at Paris kosher grocer saved customers from gunman by [W:186, 217, 273]

Re: Muslim worker at Paris kosher grocer saved customers from gunman by hiding [W:186

Henry David said:
BO is not the only person qualified to judge, and besides he is a fairly well known liar. I do not base my statement on what BO says.

It would be interesting to know what the ratio would be between Christians and muslims if one could analyze the religious affiliation of those killed by US drones or other weapons systems during the last 15 years.

Surely there must have been the random and occasional Christian killed, but my bet would be the ratio would be more than 10:1 muslims killed over Christians killed.

Get it?
Click to expand...

I think the part you're missing is someone killing in the name of their religion? Yes a christian could serve his country and kill someone in war, but they are not killing for the sake of their religious beliefs. But radical Muslims do.. Get it?
 
Re: Muslim worker at Paris kosher grocer saved customers from gunman by hiding [W:186

Somerville said:
Oh no, you have taken to heart what some right wing blogs - and FauxNews too - have to say of France's urban renewal plans, that they are actually supposed to be neighbourhoods that aren't patrolled by the police. In the past week, here in America, the nutjobs are claiming Dearborn, Michigan has become a "no-go" zone for non-Muslims which is funny because a large percentage of Dearborn's Arab population is Chaldean Christian.
Click to expand...

No, I'm afraid what I offered is a publication of the French government. The majority of these areas are not patrolled by police. You can believe whatever you wish. I offered the unvarnished truth directly from the government there. If you don't like it, it's quite all right with me. No blogs or Fox News were used in the creation of this response. Furthermore, none were used in the original post, offered solely for your edification. As I said, if you wish to remain un-edified...
 
Re: Muslim worker at Paris kosher grocer saved customers from gunman by hiding [W:186

humbolt said:
No, I'm afraid what I offered is a publication of the French government. The majority of these areas are not patrolled by police. You can believe whatever you wish. I offered the unvarnished truth directly from the government there. If you don't like it, it's quite all right with me. No blogs or Fox News were used in the creation of this response. Furthermore, none were used in the original post, offered solely for your edification. As I said, if you wish to remain un-edified...
Click to expand...


Yes it is a French govt. publication. No it does not say anything about the listed areas not being patrolled by the police. You can believe whatever you wish. You did not provide any support for the the claims being made about Muslim-controlled areas no longer being patrolled by government forces.

To support your claim you need to provide much more than a simple list of poor urban neighbourhoods. Perhaps a French newspaper story will suffice although an actual government publication warning police officers that they shouldn't patrol certain areas would provide actual backup for the claims being spewed out by the Islamophobes.
 
Re: Muslim worker at Paris kosher grocer saved customers from gunman by hiding [W:186

apdst said:
Your point, is to make excuses.
Click to expand...

I see we're getting nowhere here.
 
Re: Muslim worker at Paris kosher grocer saved customers from gunman by hiding [W:186

jmotivator said:
Please provide evidence that any other religion has fundamentalists as violent and numerous as Islam. "Fundamentalism" isn't the problem in the modern world. The fundamentalists that want to kill people who don't believe as they do are the problem. In the modern world that is Islamic Fundamentalists in a vast majority.
Click to expand...

My post wasn't clear. I meant that it's the only major religion NOW to be overrun by extremism, just not the only one EVER.
 
Re: Muslim worker at Paris kosher grocer saved customers from gunman by hiding [W:186

apdst said:
Our troops were in Saudi Arabia by invitation, or should we have just let Hussein invade Saudi Arabia?

Islam is a religion, period. There's no debate.
Click to expand...

Saudi Arabia should have their own troops protecting their country, they can afford it after all.

And as far as discriminating against Muslims, it doesnt matter if its a religion or a race or a culture. Racism is racism.
 
Re: Muslim worker at Paris kosher grocer saved customers from gunman by hiding [W:186

Monte said:
Where have I demonized the entire religion of Islam?! I simply paraphrased what is in the Koran.
I admit you are partially right - I am a hater. I hate knuckleheads who have to hide their identities behind masks while they
chop the heads off of children, or crucify their parents in the name of Islam. I hate men who use box cutters to hijack planes, then fly them into buildings. I also hate the devils who walk into magazine offices and indiscriminantly kill journalists with guns. So...yes, I am a hater!
Click to expand...
Well at least you admit to that. Let me ask you, do you have any hate for people who drop laser guided bombs or use missiles to kill women and children too?
 
Re: Muslim worker at Paris kosher grocer saved customers from gunman by hiding [W:186

lizzie said:
In my experience, and based on what I know through friends and family who are religious, churches dont address political issues, which is not surprising. The vast majority of churches in this country exist to provide religious service, as it applies to the inner spiritual needs of the individual.
The days of Christian holy wars are long gone, as "the church" has been integrated into western democratic society as a whole.

And no. Churches should not be getting involved in war or politics at any level. Separation of church and state is desirable.
Click to expand...

I agree. Still though, I wonder if a failure to condemn any particular action is tantamount to condoning that action? Especially if a person or group claims the moral high ground as part of its existence?
 
Re: Muslim worker at Paris kosher grocer saved customers from gunman by hiding [W:186

Somerville said:
Yes it is a French govt. publication. No it does not say anything about the listed areas not being patrolled by the police. You can believe whatever you wish. You did not provide any support for the the claims being made about Muslim-controlled areas no longer being patrolled by government forces.

To support your claim you need to provide much more than a simple list of poor urban neighbourhoods. Perhaps a French newspaper story will suffice although an actual government publication warning police officers that they shouldn't patrol certain areas would provide actual backup for the claims being spewed out by the Islamophobes.
Click to expand...

I might take the time to look for one. However, equating what I offered with Islamophobia is insane. What I've offered are the pronouncements of the French themselves, and they are the people claiming no policing in many of those areas. If that amounts to some kind of phobia, you should take it up with the French. It's simply what they themselves have stated. Seems like they would be in the position to know.
 
Re: Muslim worker at Paris kosher grocer saved customers from gunman by hiding [W:186

PoS said:
Saudi Arabia should have their own troops protecting their country, they can afford it after all.

And as far as discriminating against Muslims, it doesnt matter if its a religion or a race or a culture. Racism is racism.
Click to expand...
Our troops werent there to protect Saudi Arabia. They were there to protect the SA supply of oil to the global economy. Anyone that thinks that is not in the US VITAL interest is unthinking.
 
Re: Muslim worker at Paris kosher grocer saved customers from gunman by hiding [W:186

Gringo allstar said:
I think the part you're missing is someone killing in the name of their religion? Yes a christian could serve his country and kill someone in war, but they are not killing for the sake of their religious beliefs. But radical Muslims do.. Get it?
Click to expand...

Yes, I do get it. And it is very true that muslims will kill to defend the principles of their religion.

Trouble is, there are a few radical Christians who will kill to defend the anti-abortion principles of their religion.

So really, what exactly are the differences between those 2 radical groups? Aside from a cross and a crescent moon?
 
Re: Muslim worker at Paris kosher grocer saved customers from gunman by [W:186, 217,

Hatuey said:
Muslim worker at Paris kosher grocer saved customers from gunman by hiding them in walk-in freezer



The myth that Muslims simply stand idle as terrorism attacks happen is nonsense. Muslim police officers and firefighters helped during 9/11. Muslim nurses healed the victims of the Boston bombings. Muslims risk their lives every single day fighting terrorism. Millions more demonstrate against terrorism. Many more denounce attempts to radicalize them. Why people still push the bull**** lie that Muslims "are silent" while these attacks are going on is beyond me. It may be genuine run of the mill ignorance. However, when some of the people doing it are self admitted Islamophobes, one can't help but think that there is something far more sinister behind their words.
Click to expand...

im late to the party but god post!

well nobody educated, honest and objective believed that myth anyway
grouping all Muslims together is just as mentally retarded and dishonest as grouping all of a race together . . . . . . or all of another religion like Christians together. Its dumb and never taken seriously by smart people.
 
Re: Muslim worker at Paris kosher grocer saved customers from gunman by hiding [W:186

Henry David said:
Yes, I do get it. And it is very true that muslims will kill to defend the principles of their religion.

Trouble is, there are a few radical Christians who will kill to defend the anti-abortion principles of their religion.

So really, what exactly are the differences between those 2 radical groups? Aside from a cross and a crescent moon?
Click to expand...

Well, one difference would be tens of millions of radical Muslims and their sympathizers on one hand and a handful of fundamentalist Christian nuts on the other. Let me know when an army of radical Christians takes over parts of two countries and begins beheading non-believers and we might have some basis for discussion.
 
Re: Muslim worker at Paris kosher grocer saved customers from gunman by [W:186, 217,

AGENT J said:
im late to the party but god post!

well nobody educated, honest and objective believed that myth anyway
grouping all Muslims together is just as mentally retarded and dishonest as grouping all of a race together . . . . . . or all of another religion like Christians together. Its dumb and never taken seriously by smart people.
Click to expand...

Nobody has ever grouped 'all Muslims' together, but this nonsense that there are just as many dangerous Jews or Christians as their are radical Muslims or that this is only a tiny minority of Muslims that espouse these beliefs is just bull****.
 
Re: Muslim worker at Paris kosher grocer saved customers from gunman by [W:186, 217,

Wiggen said:
1.)Nobody has ever grouped 'all Muslims' together
2.) but this nonsense that there are just as many dangerous Jews or Christians as their are radical Muslims
3.) or that this is only a tiny minority of Muslims that espouse these beliefs is just bull****.
Click to expand...
1.) false there are people in this post that have and certainly on this board and even people that are major politicians or want to be (eventhough some of them quickly back peddled)
2.) secondly i missed where me or the OP said the there are just as many dangerous Jews or Christians as their are radical Muslims in 2015, sorry that strawman fails, also the argument could be made better if you define dangerous
3.) they are the minority :shrug:
 
Re: Muslim worker at Paris kosher grocer saved customers from gunman by [W:186, 217,

Nobody believes the problem is the entirety of the Muslim population.

However, it's estimated to be about 25-30 percent of Muslims that are active or support radical Islam.

In other words, about 400,000,000 of them believe in Sharia law and support the actions of radicals.

Now what do we do about that?
 
Re: Muslim worker at Paris kosher grocer saved customers from gunman by [W:186, 217,

I think this is something we are supposed to pretend doesn't really exist. The sooner people actually start believing that this is a real threat and shows no signs of dissipating, the better off we will be.
 
Re: Muslim worker at Paris kosher grocer saved customers from gunman by hiding [W:186

Henry David said:
I agree. Still though, I wonder if a failure to condemn any particular action is tantamount to condoning that action? Especially if a person or group claims the moral high ground as part of its existence?
Click to expand...

It doesn't matter to me if it can be perceived as condoning it or not. I don't think the church should have ANY influence politically speaking, and in reality, it doesn't. It is not their business to influence political decisions, and if you are trying to imply that they have some sort of moral responsibility to get involved in political and legal issues, and to set an example, I disagree wholeheartedly. Keep the church and state STRICTLY separated.

That is one of the principles our country was founded on. I have no problem with individuals saying what they think or what they believe, but I don't consider religious institutions to be legitimate political or legal influences.
 
Re: Muslim worker at Paris kosher grocer saved customers from gunman by hiding [W:186

PoS said:
Saudi Arabia should have their own troops protecting their country, they can afford it after all.

And as far as discriminating against Muslims, it doesnt matter if its a religion or a race or a culture. Racism is racism.
Click to expand...

In 1990 Iraq fielded the fourth largest army in the world. It would have taken years for Saudi Arabia to match that.
 
Re: Muslim worker at Paris kosher grocer saved customers from gunman by hiding [W:186

lizzie said:
It doesn't matter to me if it can be perceived as condoning it or not. I don't think the church should have ANY influence politically speaking, and in reality, it doesn't. It is not their business to influence political decisions, and if you are trying to imply that they have some sort of moral responsibility to get involved in political and legal issues, and to set an example, I disagree wholeheartedly. Keep the church and state STRICTLY separated.

That is one of the principles our country was founded on. I have no problem with individuals saying what they think or what they believe, but I don't consider religious institutions to be legitimate political or legal influences.
Click to expand...

Religious orgs have just as much right to influence politics as any other special interest group.
 
Re: Muslim worker at Paris kosher grocer saved customers from gunman by hiding [W:186

Wiggen said:
Well, one difference would be tens of millions of radical Muslims and their sympathizers on one hand and a handful of fundamentalist Christian nuts on the other. Let me know when an army of radical Christians takes over parts of two countries and begins beheading non-believers and we might have some basis for discussion.
Click to expand...

Embrace you inner fear sir, and maybe wallow in it too. Be really fearful of ISIS because they may ride their camels and jeeps across the globe to attack us. :doh
 
Re: Muslim worker at Paris kosher grocer saved customers from gunman by hiding [W:186

lizzie said:
It doesn't matter to me if it can be perceived as condoning it or not. I don't think the church should have ANY influence politically speaking, and in reality, it doesn't. It is not their business to influence political decisions, and if you are trying to imply that they have some sort of moral responsibility to get involved in political and legal issues, and to set an example, I disagree wholeheartedly. Keep the church and state STRICTLY separated.

That is one of the principles our country was founded on. I have no problem with individuals saying what they think or what they believe, but I don't consider religious institutions to be legitimate political or legal influences.
Click to expand...

It matters to me ONLY as insight into human behavior. Nothing more. You and I are in complete agreement as to separation of church and state.

However from the psychological and sociological perspective, and from the philosophical perspective, it seems to me that those claiming the moral high ground because of their religion are on very shaky ground if they cannot find the courage or motivation to condemn in public the actions of their fellow practitioners who act in an immoral fashion, whatever the case.

If the upper echelons of any religious organization stands silent as its members murder in the name of The Higher Entity, then that organization has no credibility IMO.

To my knowledge, the only religious outfit on the Christian side to condemn torture or war or certain other things is the Unitarian group. I'm pretty sure that certain muslim leaders have condemned in public what happened in Paris last week.
 
Re: Muslim worker at Paris kosher grocer saved customers from gunman by hiding [W:186

apdst said:
Religious orgs have just as much right to influence politics as any other special interest group.
Click to expand...
I didn't say they don't have a right. The poster I am responding to is trying to imply that churches have a moral obligation in this situation, with regard to "condoning" certain actions, and I don't believe that the church should be influencing the state at all, nor do I think that the church has any obligation to the state. It's wise to be careful about just what you think the role of the church is in a democratic society, and in this specific discussion, take a look at just what the poster is suggesting. Don't be easily sucked into a position that you don't actually support.
 
Re: Muslim worker at Paris kosher grocer saved customers from gunman by hiding [W:186

Henry David said:
To my knowledge, the only religious outfit on the Christian side to condemn torture or war or certain other things is the Unitarian group. I'm pretty sure that certain muslim leaders have condemned in public what happened in Paris last week.
Click to expand...

The bolded implies to me, that they aren't interested from a political perspective, which is a good thing imo. As for the Muslim leaders, good for them, but either way, it doesn't really matter to me. ISIS isn't comprised of reasonable people who can be reasoned with.
 
Re: Muslim worker at Paris kosher grocer saved customers from gunman by hiding [W:186

lizzie said:
The bolded implies to me, that they aren't interested from a political perspective, which is a good thing imo. As for the Muslim leaders, good for them, but either way, it doesn't really matter to me. ISIS isn't comprised of reasonable people who can be reasoned with.
Click to expand...

I agree. The Unitarians speak not from a political perspective, but rather from a moral perspective--knowing and speaking about the difference between right and wrong. Personally, as a fallen-away Catholic, I find that rather refreshing in this day and age.

And of course the simple truth is that neither you nor I actually know anything about ISIS that we have not 'learned' from the mainstream media. We "know" only what we've been told. That is not to defend the outfit, not at all, but only to keep things in perspective as to what is actually known compared to what is said. :peace
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom