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Thread: APNewsBreak: Girl says she knows she'll die without chemo

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    Re: APNewsBreak: Girl says she knows she'll die without chemo

    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos View Post
    She isn't 6. She's 17. Her body...her choice. The state also gives her the right to marry, drive, terminate a pregnancy, and a host of other things without her parents' consent.

    The state is out of line here. It's up to her and her parents. I do not care for big government and this is an example of why and when.
    At what age should a minor have the right to let themselves die?

    At what age is it her body her choice?

    When does it cross the line from being up to the parents and up to the state?

    Marrying, driving, and terminating a pregnancy, are very different decisions than suicide.

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    Re: APNewsBreak: Girl says she knows she'll die without chemo

    Quote Originally Posted by Verax View Post
    Doesn't really make any sense to me either.
    It personally makes no sense to me as a mother because I would do anything and everything to make sure my kids survive anything. But that's not really what's at hand here. The state didn't rule as they did because they think it doesn't make sense. That shouldn't be considered. It should be what is within her constitutional rights.
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    Re: APNewsBreak: Girl says she knows she'll die without chemo

    Quote Originally Posted by Verax View Post
    At what age should a minor have the right to let themselves die?

    At what age is it her body her choice?

    When does it cross the line from being up to the parents and up to the state?

    Marrying, driving, and terminating a pregnancy, are very different decisions than suicide.
    1. No clue
    2. Constitutionally from the day she is born
    3. When there is a clear case of abuse and neglect and when the child isn't old enough to make decisions about her body (which is not the case here)
    4. Her body, her choice....suicide should fall in that
    Horse sense is the thing a horse has which keeps it from betting on people. ~W.C. Fields

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    Re: APNewsBreak: Girl says she knows she'll die without chemo

    You know, a lot of research being done on Hodgkins. They may very well come up with a cure before hers becomes life threatening. The doctors and the state are on very shaky ground here.

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    Re: APNewsBreak: Girl says she knows she'll die without chemo

    For me, it's the same type of case of Jehovah's witness refusing a blood transfusion for their child to save his life... I know that these cases popped once in awhile in the last few years but can't remember the outcome, so if anyone can refresh me...

    Grey area here is the girl's age: 17 is close to legal capabilities of deciding for oneself, but still below. So, and depending on previous similar cases, I would side on 'forcing' the treatment (you could also argue hippocrat's oath there )

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    Re: APNewsBreak: Girl says she knows she'll die without chemo

    Quote Originally Posted by IceteaGreen View Post
    For me, it's the same type of case of Jehovah's witness refusing a blood transfusion for their child to save his life... I know that these cases popped once in awhile in the last few years but can't remember the outcome, so if anyone can refresh me...

    Grey area here is the girl's age: 17 is close to legal capabilities of deciding for oneself, but still below. So, and depending on previous similar cases, I would side on 'forcing' the treatment (you could also argue hippocrat's oath there )
    Actually, the doctors in compelling this are indeed breaking the Hippocratic Oath:

    I swear by Apollo the physician, and Aesculapius the surgeon, likewise Hygeia and Panacea, and call all the gods and goddesses to witness, that I will observe and keep this underwritten oath, to the utmost of my power and judgment.

    I will reverence my master who taught me the art. Equally with my parents, will I allow him things necessary for his support, and will consider his sons as brothers. I will teach them my art without reward or agreement; and I will impart all my acquirement, instructions, and whatever I know, to my master's children, as to my own; and likewise to all my pupils, who shall bind and tie themselves by a professional oath, but to none else.

    With regard to healing the sick, I will devise and order for them the best diet, according to my judgment and means; and I will take care that they suffer no hurt or damage.

    Nor shall any man's entreaty prevail upon me to administer poison to anyone; neither will I counsel any man to do so. Moreover, I will get no sort of medicine to any pregnant woman, with a view to destroy the child.

    Further, I will comport myself and use my knowledge in a godly manner.

    I will not cut for the stone, but will commit that affair entirely to the surgeons.

    Whatsoever house I may enter, my visit shall be for the convenience and advantage of the patient; and I will willingly refrain from doing any injury or wrong from falsehood, and (in an especial manner) from acts of an amorous nature, whatever may be the rank of those who it may be my duty to cure, whether mistress or servant, bond or free.

    Whatever, in the course of my practice, I may see or hear (even when not invited), whatever I may happen to obtain knowledge of, if it be not proper to repeat it, I will keep sacred and secret within my own breast.
    If I faithfully observe this oath, may I thrive and prosper in my fortune and profession, and live in the estimation of posterity; or on breach thereof, may the reverse be my fate![4]
    Hippocratic Oath - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Btw, I bolded the last sentence just for ****s and giggles. Pretty much puts an end to abortion.

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    Re: APNewsBreak: Girl says she knows she'll die without chemo

    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos View Post
    1. No clue
    2. Constitutionally from the day she is born
    3. When there is a clear case of abuse and neglect and when the child isn't old enough to make decisions about her body (which is not the case here)
    4. Her body, her choice....suicide should fall in that
    You're just leaving everything up in the air and not elaborating, that is not the way law and order works. The state can't decide when and when not to act based on personal decisions, there has to be a strict protocol. How can you say the state is wrong when you can't articulate what the proper rules should be?

    2 and 4. You say she is born with that right and then say suicide falls in that category. So basically you're saying a child is born with the right to kill themselves at any time should they choose? Following that logic should they also be allowed to self harm? cut? drink alcohol, smoke? have sex? not go to school?

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    Re: APNewsBreak: Girl says she knows she'll die without chemo

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    Actually, the doctors in compelling this are indeed breaking the Hippocratic Oath:



    Hippocratic Oath - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Btw, I bolded the last sentence just for ****s and giggles. Pretty much puts an end to abortion.
    Interesting.
    Horse sense is the thing a horse has which keeps it from betting on people. ~W.C. Fields

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    Re: APNewsBreak: Girl says she knows she'll die without chemo

    I have a family member who had breast cancer, she went through months of chemo and radio. She's decided if the cancer returns, she'd rather not go through all that again. I don't agree with the kid in the OP, but I understand where she's coming from, and believe her choice should be respected.
    So follow me into the desert
    As desperate as you are
    Where the moon is glued to a picture of heaven
    And all the little pigs have God

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    Re: APNewsBreak: Girl says she knows she'll die without chemo

    Quote Originally Posted by Verax View Post
    You're just leaving everything up in the air and not elaborating, that is not the way law and order works. The state can't decide when and when not to act based on personal decisions, there has to be a strict protocol. How can you say the state is wrong when you can't articulate what the proper rules should be?

    2 and 4. You say she is born with that right and then say suicide falls in that category. So basically you're saying a child is born with the right to kill themselves at any time should they choose? Following that logic should they also be allowed to self harm? cut? drink alcohol, smoke? have sex? not go to school?
    I didn't leave anything up in the air because there is no law that can answer #1.

    Constitutionally, according to SCOTUS, a female controls her own body and has a right to make choices about her own body. An infant isn't capable of making a choice but a 17 year old is. You don't understand the difference?

    There are laws that say nobody under 21 can smoke or drink alcohol. There are laws that state the age of consent for sex (although I don't believe a 10 year old girl will get arrested for having sex, just the person who had it with her). There are laws that say children must be educated up to a certain age. So I have no idea why you are comparing them.
    Horse sense is the thing a horse has which keeps it from betting on people. ~W.C. Fields

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