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Thread: APNewsBreak: Girl says she knows she'll die without chemo

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    Re: APNewsBreak: Girl says she knows she'll die without chemo

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Oh, excuse me, I should have said 'statist authortarian'.... Either way it is trash....Oh and it was the state that took up the cause to kill Schivo was it not?
    No, the state got involved in a high profile dispute between the husband and Terri Shiavo's parents because that's how the dispute had to be settled. It's what the courts are established in part to do.

    It was an all time low for my own Senator Frist, who diagnosed her medical condition by watching a video. I thought he was a pretty good politician till that point, when he shamelessly exploited his former career as highly qualified physician to take a position that as a medical doctor was simply reckless and indefensible. Entirely changed my opinion of him as a person.

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    Re: APNewsBreak: Girl says she knows she'll die without chemo

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Figure it out...
    Translation: "****, my wild partisan rant actually makes no sense I'll just put on a smug pretense of superiority and hope nobody notices."
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: APNewsBreak: Girl says she knows she'll die without chemo

    We had a similar case here in Canada last year, an 11 yr old native girl with acute lymphoblastic leukemia, and her mother refused chemotherapy preferring traditional native remedies and the matter went to our Supreme Court and the mother was successful in being granted the right, as her parent, to follow methods not approved by doctors or the government.

    It was reported today that she is steadily improving at this stage.
    "Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views." William F. Buckley Jr.

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    Re: APNewsBreak: Girl says she knows she'll die without chemo

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    We had a similar case here in Canada last year, an 11 yr old native girl with acute lymphoblastic leukemia, and her mother refused chemotherapy preferring traditional native remedies and the matter went to our Supreme Court and the mother was successful in being granted the right, as her parent, to follow methods not approved by doctors or the government.

    It was reported today that she is steadily improving at this stage.
    Thanks for bringing the case.

    For those interested here is a little more info:


    J.J., the First Nations girl with leukemia

    In late September, an 11-year-old First Nations girl with leukemia found herself at the centre of an intense court battle between her family and Hamilton Health Sciences (HHS).

    J.J., as she was known in court where a publication ban shielded her identity, was being treated with chemotherapy at McMaster Children’s Hospital in Hamilton this summer. In August, her mother removed her from the treatment, opting instead for alternative treatment at the Hippocrates Health Institute in Florida.

    HHS sought a court order for the Brant Children’s Aid Society (CAS) to remove the girl from her family so she could resume chemotherapy, a treatment doctors testified would give her a 90 to 95 per cent chance of survival.

    The CAS opposed the order, at one point saying it was “draconian” to separate the girl from her family.

    On Nov. 14, after nine court sessions, Justice Gethin Edward ruled it was J.J.’s mother’s aboriginal right to treat her daughter with traditional medicine instead of chemotherapy. McMaster did not appeal the verdict.

    Both J.J. and Makayla Sault — a 10-year-old New Credit First Nation girl who refused to be treated with chemotherapy at McMaster Children’s Hospital in the spring of 2014 — are still alive.

    But a CBC News investigation into the Florida clinic where both sought treatment has raised worrisome questions about the quality of treatment they’ve received.
    Hamilton's top newsmakers of 2014 - Latest Hamilton news - CBC Hamilton
    When it comes to matters of reproduce health, Politicians and the religious dogma of another faith should never interfere with religious liberty of an individual or her faith.

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    Re: APNewsBreak: Girl says she knows she'll die without chemo

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    Translation: "****, my wild partisan rant actually makes no sense I'll just put on a smug pretense of superiority and hope nobody notices."
    Or it could be that I'm tired of repeating myself to people that have no real interest in debate, or are just going to ignore it anyway...got it?
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    Re: APNewsBreak: Girl says she knows she'll die without chemo

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    We had a similar case here in Canada last year, an 11 yr old native girl with acute lymphoblastic leukemia, and her mother refused chemotherapy preferring traditional native remedies and the matter went to our Supreme Court and the mother was successful in being granted the right, as her parent, to follow methods not approved by doctors or the government.

    It was reported today that she is steadily improving at this stage.
    Here are a few <SNIPs>from a blog that helps explain why the Canadian court ruled the way it did.


    These are the details of a case that was recently argued in the Ontario Court of Justice. There is precedent in the Canadian legal system for disregarding the express wishes of parents who are also a child’s surrogate decision maker. For example, children of Jehovah’s Witnesses will continue to receive blood transfusions despite the fact that the tenets of their parents’ faith prohibit such a procedure. Why not override the mother’s decision in this case then, which seems so similar?

    J.J. and her mother, D.H., are both members of The Six Nations of the Grand River, the largest First Nation band in Canada. In Canada, the rights of aboriginal peoples are protected under Section 35 of the 1982 Canada Act. The text of this act states:


    35. (1) The existing aboriginal and treaty rights of the aboriginal peoples of Canada are hereby recognized and affirmed.

    (2) In this Act, “Aboriginal Peoples of Canada” includes the Indian, Inuit and Métis peoples of Canada.

    (3) For greater certainty, in subsection (1) “treaty rights” includes rights that now exist by way of land claims agreements or may be so acquired.

    (4) Notwithstanding any other provision of this Act, the aboriginal and treaty rights referred to in subsection (1) are guaranteed equally to male and female persons.


    35(1) has been understood to encompass all rights that existed prior to the creation of the Canada Act that can be demonstrated to be centrally important to the continued culture and lifestyle of aboriginal peoples. That is, those rights possessed before European settlement of Canada that are central to the traditions of aboriginal peoples are to be both recognized and affirmed. ...

    D.H. withdrew J.J. from treatment in order to pursue a course of traditional aboriginal medicine [1]. Given that the use of traditional medicine is a centrally important and continuing practice, it was deemed to be protected under 35(1) of the Canada Act. For this reason, the case to have J.J.’s status changed to a child in need of protection was dismissed. No party in the dispute believes that D.H. is an unloving mother or that other aspects of J.J.’s life could warrant such a status. The only concern—and it is clearly a big one—is that the result of D.H.’s rejection of chemotherapy is the likely death of her child.

    The obvious question is: Should the Ontario Court have ruled in the way it did? I think the answer is No, but it’s important to be careful. The history of Canada’s treatment of aboriginal peoples is abhorrent, and some feel that any other ruling would have been a step towards the erosion of rights that are justifiably protected under the Canada Act. It is easy to see why one might worry about this. The traditional medical practices of The Six Nations are centrally important to their culture. If the court had overridden the wishes of the mother, that might have been seen as a legal precedent for denying traditional medical practices more generally. That would surely be unjustified.

    But it is important to acknowledge that we know how the Court would have responded if the cultural practices in question were those of any non-aboriginal group. The parents’ decision as a surrogate would not have been respected and the child would have been treated.
    The understandable caution taken in this case (if we want to call the judge’s reading of 35(1), which is undoubtedly an extension of previous interpretations, caution) is a result of the awareness of previous wrongdoing. But, the overriding of parents’ decisions in other cases doesn’t amount to some form of legal prohibition on the practice of the tradition the tenet of which was in conflict with the proposed treatment. Nor does it diminish the capacity of the parents to bring the child up in their faith or cultural tradition. Nor does it indicate any malice towards the group in question. Rather, overriding the parents’ decisions amounts to the state asserting that, in the case in question, it is the child’s wellbeing that matters most. And this is just as it should be.
    Last edited by minnie616; 01-17-15 at 05:58 PM.
    When it comes to matters of reproduce health, Politicians and the religious dogma of another faith should never interfere with religious liberty of an individual or her faith.

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    Re: APNewsBreak: Girl says she knows she'll die without chemo

    Quote Originally Posted by minnie616 View Post
    Here are a few <SNIPs>from a blog that helps explain why the Canadian court ruled the way it did.
    Good afternoon Minnie,

    Thanks for filling in the details here. I didn't do so, not knowing if a Canadian case under different laws would be of interest to the predominantly American audience here on DP.

    I'll be following the child's progress from a medical perspective. It was reported in one of the Toronto newspapers today that the family of the child claims she's now cancer-free. The family claims the traditional/alternative treatments have cured her whereas the oncologists who treated her claim that the two weeks of chemotherapy she received is the reason for her recovery. The child was apparently tested at our world renowned Sick Kids hospital, her spinal fluids and bone marrow, and reported no signs of any cancer.

    Who knows what happened - I'm glad the child appears to be in full recovery. But the legal battle was also interesting. It might give some credence to the parents and patient in the case outlined in this OP who feel other methods may be better than chemotherapy.

    Thanks again for filling in the details.
    "Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views." William F. Buckley Jr.

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    Re: APNewsBreak: Girl says she knows she'll die without chemo

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    She's a minor and isn't equipped to make that decision solo, and her mother filled her head with the hippie bull**** idea that some "alternative medicine" will make her life better.

    Her mother is trying to kill her with hippie bull****. The fact that it's unintentional isn't terribly relevant.
    I don't care if the state views her as a minor and I don't care if they approve of anything. She is seventeen years old and made a decision towards her own person. She did hurt anyone by doing so and the state and the doctors involved are completely out of line to imprison her and violate her person. Period. If anyone should be imprisoned it the judge and the doctors that forced medical treatment on another human being.

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    Re: APNewsBreak: Girl says she knows she'll die without chemo

    Quote Originally Posted by Declan View Post
    She is not an adult. It doesn't matter if chemo has harmful side effects or not. She is on it and that is how it will be until she turns 18.
    Can she sue the doctors when she turns eighteen for what they did to her?

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    Re: APNewsBreak: Girl says she knows she'll die without chemo

    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle View Post
    Well she wouldn't be a prisoner if she had just went to the chemo therapy appointments like she agreed to, and if her mom wasn't some hippie anti-science freak. The day she turns 18 she can tear off the chemo tubes and walk right out the door and tell then she's a minor in the state has to protect her interests
    Its kinda of funny how the government used to arrest people for selling a drug people were taking for AIDS because according to the government the treatment did nothing. Funny how that treatment became the backbone of AIDS treatment in the years to come.

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