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APNewsBreak: Girl says she knows she'll die without chemo

Verax said:
Yes an infant isn't capable but a 17 year old might be... I was curious where you draw the line?

So you're okay with a child killing themselves because there isn't a law saying its illegal?
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In this case we don't have to draw any line, her MOTHER, her sole legal guardian is with her on this. That is enough for the state to back the **** off. And what the hell is wrong with these doctors? Since when is it cool for a doctor to compel treatment the patient doesn't want? Every one of them should lose their licenses.

To answer your question though, the lines are already drawn. 18 is the age where the line sits. However, depending upon the state, legal emancipation can happen before that. In California you can file for emancipation at 14. You must prove adult competence.
 
j-mac said:
How about this choice, A 17 year old has murdered his entire family with an axe, and has been deemed to be mentally competent, and faces the death penalty...Should it be carried out?
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I don't support the death penalty as it is done in the USA. I don't support the death penalty for minors.
 
Hatuey said:
APNewsBreak: Girl says she knows she'll die without chemo

On one side, she's an idiot who can be cured. On the other, she has a right to be an idiot and die because of that. Not sure how I feel about this but I smell the anti-science stench a mile away.
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She's a minor who sounds like she's being influenced by a stupid parent who shouldn't have custody of her. Chemotherapy is hell, but death is worse. I'm glad the state made this decision. I suspect she'll be grateful for it years from now.
 
ThePlayDrive said:
She's a minor who sounds like she's being influenced by a stupid parent who shouldn't have custody of her. Chemotherapy is hell, but death is worse. I'm glad the state made this decision. I suspect she'll be grateful for it years from now.
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She sounds like the anti-science muffs you hear on the left or the right. Her language calling chemotherapy "poison" and talking about alternative treatments is pretty indicative. This is what we get in an age where there is an unhealthy distrust of science. From GMOs to vaccines, to Western medicine, there seems to be a growing segment of American society that is hellbent on ignoring science because they believe that they know better.
 
tres borrachos said:
What the **** happened to "her body, her choice"?
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There is not a " her body ,her choice" .

You might be confusing that with " right of privacy" , which only applies to certain zones of privacy regarding such things as marriage, child rearing, contraception, abortion, among a few others.
 
Hard Truth said:
I don't support the death penalty as it is done in the USA. I don't support the death penalty for minors.
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Wasn't it you who told me that you were a proponent of "individual sovereignty"? maybe not, I might have you confused....
 
The United States is unique in that it's the only country in the world where the only treatments that can be legally prescribed for cancer are chemo, radiation and surgery. Anyone who brings forth a different idea can be fined heavily or thrown into prison, that's how powerful the pharmaceutical lobby is.

What makes this story noteworthy to most people is that the parents are Christian, and that the patient is under-aged. I say to that: so what?

Do children not have the right to refuse medical procedures, even if life saving? They're allowed to refuse surgery because surgery carries risk of death, however marginal. Well, so do chemo therapy drugs. My aunt had adverse drug reactions throughout her entire treatment cycle, and it was honestly the chemo that ended up killing her.

If this were an adult, it would not be news. We would just write it off as some other idiot not accepting a known treatment, even though there are plenty of cases of people curing their cancer through other means. It's just that, in the U.S., you aren't allowed to publicize that whatsoever or the government will end you.

If the government is taking over any sentient person's health care because they refuse to give informed consent, that is a BIG assault on personal liberties and freedoms.
 
Hatuey said:
She sounds like the anti-science muffs you hear on the left or the right. Her language calling chemotherapy "poison" and talking about alternative treatments is pretty indicative. This is what we get in an age where there is an unhealthy distrust of science. From GMOs to vaccines, to Western medicine, there seems to be a growing segment of American society that is hellbent on ignoring science because they believe that they know better.
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Yeah, I am torn on this one also Hautey...As a patient for the last 5 years of the Cancer Center here I have seen close up what Chemo does, but also how the human spirit for survival will go through that to live. I must admit that if the Doctor was telling me that there was an 85% chance that I'd be cured of this disease that will end up in death with out treatment, I'd damned sure say 'when do I start'?
 
Hatuey said:
She sounds like the anti-science muffs you hear on the left or the right. Her language calling chemotherapy "poison" and talking about alternative treatments is pretty indicative. This is what we get in an age where there is an unhealthy distrust of science. From GMOs to vaccines, to Western medicine, there seems to be a growing segment of American society that is hellbent on ignoring science because they believe that they know better.
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Well if enough of those people reject medical treatment because of their distrust of science, we won't have anything to worry about soon enough.
 
j-mac said:
Yeah, I am torn on this one also Hautey...As a patient for the last 5 years of the Cancer Center here I have seen close up what Chemo does, but also how the human spirit for survival will go through that to live. I must admit that if the Doctor was telling me that there was an 85% chance that I'd be cured of this disease that will end up in death with out treatment, I'd damned sure say 'when do I start'?
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Yep. I'm in recovery from chemotherapy right now. Chemo sucks, but living is worth it.
 
ThePlayDrive said:
Yep. I'm in recovery from chemotherapy right now. Chemo sucks, but living is worth it.
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I have Porpheria (sp?) so I am in the Cancer Center every 3 months to give up some blood...I meet many there, and do my best to be a friendly face for them....
 
j-mac said:
I have Porpheria (sp?) so I am in the Cancer Center every 3 months to give up some blood...I meet many there, and do my best to be a friendly face for them....
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I'm sure they appreciate it. For whatever it's worth, you have my respect for that.
 
Northern Light said:
The United States is unique in that it's the only country in the world where the only treatments that can be legally prescribed for cancer are chemo, radiation and surgery. Anyone who brings forth a different idea can be fined heavily or thrown into prison, that's how powerful the pharmaceutical lobby is.
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What a ridiculous statement. The doctors prescribe drugs because you only need a prescription for regulated drugs :doh Doctors will prescribe supplements that you can buy OTC too if they are available by prescription because for some people, getting the insurance to pay for vitamins and such can be important. I have a relative whose doctor prescribes her vitamin supplements like C, fish oil, E, iron, etc and she has the option of buying them OTC or through her insurance. In addition, if someone elects not to seek cancer treatment, they can still receive palliative care/support services to manage their decline. Your complaint would be like saying doctors are evil because they will not fix your car so you can come see them---not in their job description. If you want to eat grass and berries, go find a forest ranger to tell you what is edible; if you want to sit in a tent and sweat the cancer out of you, go find a new age guru; if you want to have the cancer zapped out of you, go find Harry Potter.
 
She's a minor and is clearly making a self-destructive decision. The natural-remedies hippies are claiming another victim.
 
j-mac said:
Wasn't it you who told me that you were a proponent of "individual sovereignty"? maybe not, I might have you confused....
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I'm not sure what you mean by "individual sovereignty," it is not a term that I would use. I may support the concept depending on how it is defined and used. I might have expressed approval of the idea in the context of a thread that defined it, but I don't recall doing so.

In this particular issue, the fact that she is a minor is my deciding factor in supporting the government in this situation.
 
Declan said:
What a ridiculous statement. The doctors prescribe drugs because you only need a prescription for regulated drugs :doh Doctors will prescribe supplements that you can buy OTC too if they are available by prescription because for some people, getting the insurance to pay for vitamins and such can be important. I have a relative whose doctor prescribes her vitamin supplements like C, fish oil, E, iron, etc and she has the option of buying them OTC or through her insurance. In addition, if someone elects not to seek cancer treatment, they can still receive palliative care/support services to manage their decline. Your complaint would be like saying doctors are evil because they will not fix your car so you can come see them---not in their job description. If you want to eat grass and berries, go find a forest ranger to tell you what is edible; if you want to sit in a tent and sweat the cancer out of you, go find a new age guru; if you want to have the cancer zapped out of you, go find Harry Potter.
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I don't think doctors are evil, can you find anywhere that I said something like that? Likewise, did I say anything about new agers?

Fundamentally, people should have a right to refuse care for any reason they see fit. The era of eugenics taught us how dangerous it is to force medical treatments on people, and how that gets abused. The courts are wrong in this case.
 
Northern Light said:
I don't think doctors are evil, can you find anywhere that I said something like that? Likewise, did I say anything about new agers?

Fundamentally, people should have a right to refuse care for any reason they see fit. The era of eugenics taught us how dangerous it is to force medical treatments on people, and how that gets abused. The courts are wrong in this case.
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If this were an adult, it would not be news. We would just write it off as some other idiot not accepting a known treatment, even though there are plenty of cases of people curing their cancer through other means. It's just that, in the U.S., you aren't allowed to publicize that whatsoever or the government will end you.
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Got a link for this?
 
The sad reality is that cancer does many times come back, and when it does it usually takes you out. She already started the chemo and bc it made her feel like crap, she chose to explore another route. We can't get into these peoples head and apply our logic to theirs. Maybe they know someone who barely made it through chemo only to die a few yrs later, maybe she read of stories about people using alternative medicine/supplements that worked. Those stories do exist, we just don't hear about them, just like we don't hear about natural alternative supplements that cure everyday ailments... Bc there's no money to be made for the pharm companies. Thankfully I've never dealt with the "c" word but I've read enough to know that it's a beast as well as chemo. I've heard of ppl having horrible painful sores in their mouths and not being able to eat, terrible nausea, feeling like you have the flu for the duration of treatment. Most of us want someone to take us out of our misery by the third day if we have the flu or strep. I couldn't imagine feeling like that for months.... Several months. As the saying goes... Until you've walked a mile in that persons shoes...
 
ThePlayDrive said:
She's a minor who sounds like she's being influenced by a stupid parent who shouldn't have custody of her. Chemotherapy is hell, but death is worse. I'm glad the state made this decision. I suspect she'll be grateful for it years from now.
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Death is not the end for believers, and being in a better place is not a worst case scenario for believers. You may think it's coo coo for cocoa puffs, but we all find out in the end.
 
Linear thinking says the chemo is her only hope... because that is what t h e FDA will allow. There are other treatments available. The state of Georgia is now allowing treatment of some conditions (siezures) with cannabis oil, some doctors have had huge success with it, perha p s she would like to try something besides big pharm solutions for profit at the point of a gun. Two recent cancer patients in my life, one with breast cancer that spread to bones, she was diagnosed 4 years ago. Does some traditional American treatment, but mostly homeopathic. She has a great attitude and outlook. The second diagnosed with lung caner December 6th 2014, did radiation and chemo, died September 20th frail, wasted,oullburned from chemo and radiation. In the last two months she was helpless and in such pain she couldn't communicate.

So here we have this girl who has, what, two years to live? What is wrong with allowing her to seek alternative treatment first? And if she doesn't want chemo, what government official has the right to force her to have it? This is the nanny state at it's inevitable tipping point. The girl, a minor, made her decision and her mother backed it up. That should be the end of it. There are states that allow assisted suicide, touted by it's supporters as a form of personal freedom, and it is. As far as I am concerned this is a case of kidnapping (and torture) by the state. From a philosophical perspective it raises the question of personal freedom. If you agree with the state here you are essentially saying that our children belong to the state, and that would be a government gone too far. It would be interesting to see who is paying for the treatments as well. Was she kidnapped, forced to be poisoned, and then her mother billed for it? Be careful here people, you and yours might be next.
 
herenow1 said:
Death is not the end for believers, and being in a better place is not a worst case scenario for believers. You may think it's coo coo for cocoa puffs, but we all find out in the end.
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I am a believer and I have been faced with the decision to die or get chemotherapy. I chose chemo and I stand by my assertion that death is worse.
 
ThePlayDrive said:
I am a believer and I have been faced with the decision to die or get chemotherapy. I chose chemo and I stand by my assertion that death is worse.
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I am very happy that you were alloewed to make your decision.
 
tech30528 said:
Linear thinking says the chemo is her only hope... because that is what t h e FDA will allow. There are other treatments available. The state of Georgia is now allowing treatment of some conditions (siezures) with cannabis oil, some doctors have had huge success with it, perha p s she would like to try something besides big pharm solutions for profit at the point of a gun. Two recent cancer patients in my life, one with breast cancer that spread to bones, she was diagnosed 4 years ago. Does some traditional American treatment, but mostly homeopathic. She has a great attitude and outlook. The second diagnosed with lung caner December 6th 2014, did radiation and chemo, died September 20th frail, wasted,oullburned from chemo and radiation. In the last two months she was helpless and in such pain she couldn't communicate.

So here we have this girl who has, what, two years to live? What is wrong with allowing her to seek alternative treatment first? And if she doesn't want chemo, what government official has the right to force her to have it? This is the nanny state at it's inevitable tipping point. The girl, a minor, made her decision and her mother backed it up. That should be the end of it. There are states that allow assisted suicide, touted by it's supporters as a form of personal freedom, and it is. As far as I am concerned this is a case of kidnapping (and torture) by the state. From a philosophical perspective it raises the question of personal freedom. If you agree with the state here you are essentially saying that our children belong to the state, and that would be a government gone too far. It would be interesting to see who is paying for the treatments as well. Was she kidnapped, forced to be poisoned, and then her mother billed for it? Be careful here people, you and yours might be next.
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Everything you just said is stupid. I'm tempted to go through all of it, but the stupidity you've displayed is so enraging that I'd rather just continue say how stupid everything you just posted is. Stupid. Stupid. Stupid. Stupid. Stupid.

May you never be in charge of anyone's medical decisions.
 
tech30528 said:
I am very happy that you were alloewed to make your decision.
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Me too and I'm happy to know that if I'd been a minor and I had stupid mother who would have let me die because she believed in that my only chance at life was a "Big Pharma" conspiracy that the state would have stepped in to help me.
 
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