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Thread: APNewsBreak: Girl says she knows she'll die without chemo

  1. #31
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    Re: APNewsBreak: Girl says she knows she'll die without chemo

    Quote Originally Posted by mak2 View Post
    She certainly will be without treatment, probably not if treated.
    So since she's not dead, there's no abuse. Interesting that you're willing to have the state revoke a parents rights to their child on something that may happen in the future, based on an assumption.
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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    Re: APNewsBreak: Girl says she knows she'll die without chemo

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    The mature minds in this case are her parents, not the state. This is less about this particular person and more about when does a state have the right to decide what is best for a child without the consent of the parents. Do children belong to their legal parent/guardian or do they really belong to the state. Obviously in cases where there is neglect or abuse it's one thing.... but there was no neglect or abuse in this case, at least none identified so far.
    The determination has been made that the parents are not acting in the child's best interest by letting her die. It's kind of a grey area and perhaps it should be up to the parents and 17 year old since she is close to being an adult. However I think the problem is that the parents' judgement is being deemed unsound. In a more extreme case this would seem more appropriate but is kind of funny here.

  3. #33
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    Re: APNewsBreak: Girl says she knows she'll die without chemo

    Quote Originally Posted by mak2 View Post
    Are you pro Euthanasia? I am just thinking this thru, professionally I am interested in medical ethics.
    Yes. I am of the view that right to life also means right to die. It's not a simple determination, one must prove mental competency first.

    But that's not the base issue here. Do patients have the right to refuse medical treatment (or to go against medical advice). How far are the courts going to take this considering this decision that she must have involuntary chemo? If a doctor advises, "quit smoking or you will die", can the doctor then order the state to compel you to quit smoking?

  4. #34
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    Re: APNewsBreak: Girl says she knows she'll die without chemo

    You cant wait till she is dead then treat her for cancer.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    So since she's not dead, there's no abuse. Interesting that you're willing to have the state revoke a parents rights to their child on something that may happen in the future, based on an assumption.
    God Bless the Marine Corps.

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    Re: APNewsBreak: Girl says she knows she'll die without chemo

    Quote Originally Posted by Verax View Post
    The determination has been made that the parents are not acting in the child's best interest by letting her die. It's kind of a grey area and perhaps it should be up to the parents and 17 year old since she is close to being an adult. However I think the problem is that the parents' judgement is being deemed unsound. In a more extreme case this would seem more appropriate but is kind of funny here.
    I'm very uncomfortable with that.... there is no abuse there is no neglect.
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


  6. #36
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    Re: APNewsBreak: Girl says she knows she'll die without chemo

    I think this is an interesting case because she is not in pain, it is not a risk v benefits issue, there is almost always a good outcome and almost always fatal without treatment. To simply not take the treatment, as far as I can see, is exactly the same as someone who is not in pain and has no terminal illness taking enough morphine ot kill himself. I am trying to figure out the difference here. The gooberment bad thing I dont think should enter the medical ethics question. Is it right or wrong to let a minor kill themselves with parental concent?
    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    Yes. I am of the view that right to life also means right to die. It's not a simple determination, one must prove mental competency first.

    But that's not the base issue here. Do patients have the right to refuse medical treatment (or to go against medical advice). How far are the courts going to take this considering this decision that she must have involuntary chemo? If a doctor advises, "quit smoking or you will die", can the doctor then order the state to compel you to quit smoking?
    God Bless the Marine Corps.

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    Re: APNewsBreak: Girl says she knows she'll die without chemo

    Quote Originally Posted by mak2 View Post
    So you are all for letting children kill themselves? Cause that is exactly what you are saying. Get off the gooberment bad thing for a minute and think. Do you really want to let this girl die for no reason?
    "I" am not doing anything of the sort....I personally, if she were my daughter would talk to her about getting the treatments, however, it seems that the parents are for giving her the say so, and it is her body....And no I won't get off the "government" thing....This is what happens when you give up your rights to big government...Tell me, when the IPAB gets rolling, and they deny treatments will you be saying that's a good thing too?
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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    Re: APNewsBreak: Girl says she knows she'll die without chemo

    Quote Originally Posted by mak2 View Post
    If you are almost certain to live if you take the chemo and almost certain to die without it, and you can take it and refuse, what do you call it? Its suicide.
    No it isn't. So the 10% chance she will die even if she follows the doctors proscribed course of action is what? Bad luck?

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    Re: APNewsBreak: Girl says she knows she'll die without chemo

    Ok, gooberment bad, let her die...
    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    "I" am not doing anything of the sort....I personally, if she were my daughter would talk to her about getting the treatments, however, it seems that the parents are for giving her the say so, and it is her body....And no I won't get off the "government" thing....This is what happens when you give up your rights to big government...Tell me, when the IPAB gets rolling, and they deny treatments will you be saying that's a good thing too?
    God Bless the Marine Corps.

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    Re: APNewsBreak: Girl says she knows she'll die without chemo

    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos View Post
    Her mother is a mature mind. Her mother supports her choice. Her mother is her legal guardian. Not everyone needs the "mature minds" of their state government to do the thinking for them.
    Couple problems though. IMO the only person who should decide if they can die should be the person themselves. However in this case that person is legally a minor and may not be mentally matured enough to decide for themselves. So sure it goes to the parents, but that presents a problem as well. Should a parent be allowed to make a decision for her child to let them die when a viable alternative exists?

    Think of this in more extreme terms and it would sound ridiculous. Lets say a 6 year old has a blood infection and will die without antibiotics. The parents say they don't believe in it so no, don't do it. This would not be allowed, so why is this case so much different? The state and or medical team would step in and make the right decision because the parents were deemed of unsound judgement.

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