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Thread: APNewsBreak: Girl says she knows she'll die without chemo

  1. #371
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    Re: APNewsBreak: Girl says she knows she'll die without chemo

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    I see the danger very clearly, but it originates in the idea that 1. the state has an interest in the health and welfare of minors, and when those interests are being threatened by the parents, the state can intervene. I don't have a problem with that principle, and so 2. we have to evaluate instances when the state exercises that power on the merits. 3. Here, the merits aren't close for me - "you know, like, I don't like poison in my body so, like, maybe I'll try alternatives" is a decision of an immature child given4. the fact that chemo works for 80-85% of patients with this disease. And the mother isn't making any kind of alternative treatment decision that, from what we know, is remotely responsible.

    Let's put it this way - if we knew of any medical provider of any sort (a naturopath for example, who I have a great deal of respect for dealing with many conditions including my own arthritis) that was going to guide this treatment and could or did testify that it was a legitimate treatment option of this condition, I'd be all over giving them the respect that decision deserves. 5. But that's just not in the record anywhere. If I'm missing it, then I'm basing a decision on ignorance. But that seems to me - a legitimate alternative plan to deal with deadly disease - sort of a VERY low bar that this family did not step over. As such, 6.I don't see a problem of the slippery slope here.

    Well aren't we a run of the mill arrogant liberal?

    1. What exactly is "the States" interest?

    2. "We" eh? And what makes you believe that anyone outside other like minded Statists agree with you?

    3. And whom in the living hell do you think you are? No one has to prove a damned thing to you Jasper.

    4. The 80 to 85% has that "likely" word in front of it, do you know why?

    5. That has been reported anyway....Fact is we don't have the entire story, just that which the press wants to give to sell papers.

    6. That's good to know when the state takes your rights away based on precedent set by cases like this one...But by then I am sure you'll just say that it was all the fault of some political opponents or some other such bull ****....So, you believe what you want, and I'll believe what I want, but I have the argument of freedom on my side, you preach an arrogant subservience to government that makes me sick.

    Night now.
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

  2. #372
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    Re: APNewsBreak: Girl says she knows she'll die without chemo

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Well aren't we a run of the mill arrogant liberal?

    1. What exactly is "the States" interest?

    2. "We" eh? And what makes you believe that anyone outside other like minded Statists agree with you?

    3. And whom in the living hell do you think you are? No one has to prove a damned thing to you Jasper.

    4. The 80 to 85% has that "likely" word in front of it, do you know why?

    5. That has been reported anyway....Fact is we don't have the entire story, just that which the press wants to give to sell papers.

    6. That's good to know when the state takes your rights away based on precedent set by cases like this one...But by then I am sure you'll just say that it was all the fault of some political opponents or some other such bull ****....So, you believe what you want, and I'll believe what I want, but I have the argument of freedom on my side, you preach an arrogant subservience to government that makes me sick.

    Night now.
    I'm not trying to be insulting to you, so no idea why you need to insult me. But if you don't want to have a civil debate, your choice to be an a$$hole, not mine.

    If you think, for example, that the state (which is WE) shouldn't for example remove a toddler from a crack den, then fine. We disagree. If you support that, then all we disagree on is when and where the state, which is we, exercise those powers.

  3. #373
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    Re: APNewsBreak: Girl says she knows she'll die without chemo

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    I'm not trying to be insulting to you, so no idea why you need to insult me. But if you don't want to have a civil debate, your choice to be an a$$hole, not mine.

    If you think, for example, that the state (which is WE) shouldn't for example remove a toddler from a crack den, then fine. We disagree. If you support that, then all we disagree on is when and where the state, which is we, exercise those powers.
    No, you're right....Sorry...Look, if this girl were 10 yr old, and the mom was saying this due to some scared tantrum the girl was throwing then, I'd say yeah, someone needs to step in...But, she's not, hell, in less than 9 months she'll be 18.

    It has been hammered into the American conscience over, and over again how in things like abortion it is "her body, her decision"... In the gay rights argument, "get the government out of the bedroom"... Yet now when the courts overstep, disregard all evidence, and rule based on emotion, something stinks here....

    I think it sucks that this girl doesn't want to take the chemo, but I also respect her decision.
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

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    Re: APNewsBreak: Girl says she knows she'll die without chemo

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    No, you're right....Sorry...Look, if this girl were 10 yr old, and the mom was saying this due to some scared tantrum the girl was throwing then, I'd say yeah, someone needs to step in...But, she's not, hell, in less than 9 months she'll be 18.

    It has been hammered into the American conscience over, and over again how in things like abortion it is "her body, her decision"... In the gay rights argument, "get the government out of the bedroom"... Yet now when the courts overstep, disregard all evidence, and rule based on emotion, something stinks here....

    I think it sucks that this girl doesn't want to take the chemo, but I also respect her decision.
    And I also respect your opinion on it - there are clear dangers when we give the state the right to make these decisions. We just disagree on this case but I get where you're coming from. No hard feelings.

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    Re: APNewsBreak: Girl says she knows she'll die without chemo

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    And I also respect your opinion on it - there are clear dangers when we give the state the right to make these decisions. We just disagree on this case but I get where you're coming from. No hard feelings.
    Thanks.
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

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    Re: APNewsBreak: Girl says she knows she'll die without chemo

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    People see value in life. I'm sorry this concept is so foreign to you.
    Then they should live their own lives and leave other people alone.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

    Blog me! YouTube me! VidMe me!

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    Re: APNewsBreak: Girl says she knows she'll die without chemo

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    People see value in life. I'm sorry this concept is so foreign to you.
    Really? You see value on life? Are you pro life then? How about the Terry Schivo case? Where'd you fall on that?...hmm?...yeah, i thought so.
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

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    Re: APNewsBreak: Girl says she knows she'll die without chemo

    Quote Originally Posted by mak2 View Post
    What she wants to do is equivilant to suicide.
    No it's not. Words have meanings. If were going to redefine words, then why not just call it pumpkin?

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    Re: APNewsBreak: Girl says she knows she'll die without chemo

    Quote Originally Posted by Declan View Post
    Obviously she doesn't have a right to die without treatment or this wouldn't be a story.
    So you support forcing people to undergo dangerous medical procedures?

  10. #380
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    Re: APNewsBreak: Girl says she knows she'll die without chemo

    Quote Originally Posted by Paleocon View Post
    So you support forcing people to undergo dangerous medical procedures?
    The government does and that is all that matters (though drinking soy-mango juice instead of chemo is more dangerous in the mind of someone who heard this case).

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