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Thread: APNewsBreak: Girl says she knows she'll die without chemo

  1. #351
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    Re: APNewsBreak: Girl says she knows she'll die without chemo

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    So, just as I suspected. Saying a judge ruled her incompetent was not true. The judge refused to consider the mature minor doctrine as a loophole to take over. Simply on emotional grounds.
    It was the Supreme Court that ruled her mentally incompetent.



    17-year-old Connecticut girl with a highly curable cancer is not mentally competent to make her own medical decisions and will continue to receive the chemotherapy treatments she's battled to halt, the Connecticut Supreme Court ordered Thursday.

    Chief Justice Chase T. Rogers ruled that the teen — listed only as Cassandra C. in legal records — is not mature by any standard.


    That means Cassandra will remain at a Hartford hospital, in the temporary custody of child-welfare workers, and will receive her full course of chemotherapy to treat Hodgkin lymphoma. Doctors have said her odds at recovery are 80 to 85 percent with chemo, but that she will die without it.[/B]
    http://www.nbcnews.com/health/cancer...-court-n282421
    Last edited by minnie616; 01-14-15 at 02:38 PM.
    When it comes to matters of reproduce health, Politicians and the religious dogma of another faith should never interfere with religious liberty of an individual or her faith.

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    Re: APNewsBreak: Girl says she knows she'll die without chemo

    Quote Originally Posted by minnie616 View Post
    It was the Supreme Court that ruled her mentally incompetent.
    Doesn't change what I said
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    Re: APNewsBreak: Girl says she knows she'll die without chemo

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    Which is fine but the state rarely involves itself in other cases where the health and welfare of a minor is harmed by a parent's religious beliefs, for instance. Is it just because this isn't a religious case?
    I can't comment on cases we're only speculating about. If you have an example, we can discuss that example.

    Define "responsible medical decisions". Is that any medical decision where the daughter is not forced to remain alive at any cost?
    As a start, a responsible medical decision would be to have an alternative treatment backed by medical professional (traditional or otherwise) lined up as an alternative to chemo. Saying "no poison" isn't a treatment plan, and without some treatment she is killing her daughter or doing nothing to prevent her certain death from untreated cancer.

    I'm not so sure about that. I guess we'll find out once she's 18.
    Yes, we will. Hopefully, when she's 18 she's in remission and this will fade into the background. But the legal questions are premised on her being a MINOR and when this MINOR can make her own medical decisions.

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    Re: APNewsBreak: Girl says she knows she'll die without chemo

    The girl will turn 18 in 9 months.
    Then she will be able to make her own health care decisions.
    When it comes to matters of reproduce health, Politicians and the religious dogma of another faith should never interfere with religious liberty of an individual or her faith.

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    Re: APNewsBreak: Girl says she knows she'll die without chemo

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    I can't comment on cases we're only speculating about. If you have an example, we can discuss that example.



    As a start, a responsible medical decision would be to have an alternative treatment backed by medical professional (traditional or otherwise) lined up as an alternative to chemo. Saying "no poison" isn't a treatment plan, and without some treatment she is killing her daughter or doing nothing to prevent her certain death from untreated cancer.



    Yes, we will. Hopefully, when she's 18 she's in remission and this will fade into the background. But the legal questions are premised on her being a MINOR and when this MINOR can make her own medical decisions.
    Yes, wothout the CT panel of state supreme court judges even considering the "mature minor doctrine" for emotional reasons instead of considering ALL the facts such as her ability to understand the consequences and the parents wishes...this was the state saying 'we know better'... Any rational person that respects freedom should see this as dangerous.
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    Re: APNewsBreak: Girl says she knows she'll die without chemo

    Quote Originally Posted by minnie616 View Post
    The girl will turn 18 in 9 months.
    Then she will be able to make her own health care decisions.
    Great point. And at that time she can refuse treatment and/or look for alternative treatment. We have a responsibility to our young to protect them until they can make decisions on their own. We have deemed as a society that is somewhere between 18 and 21. Right now, she is getting her medicine. When I was a child, I didn't like taking my medicine either.
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    Re: APNewsBreak: Girl says she knows she'll die without chemo

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    Which is fine but the state rarely involves itself in other cases where the health and welfare of a minor is harmed by a parent's religious beliefs, for instance. Is it just because this isn't a religious case?
    ...
    There have been cases where Christian Scientist parents and others have been required to provide their children with medical care despite their religious beliefs against doing so.

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    Re: APNewsBreak: Girl says she knows she'll die without chemo

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Yes, wothout the CT panel of state supreme court judges even considering the "mature minor doctrine" for emotional reasons instead of considering ALL the facts such as her ability to understand the consequences and the parents wishes...this was the state saying 'we know better'... Any rational person that respects freedom should see this as dangerous.
    I see the danger very clearly, but it originates in the idea that the state has an interest in the health and welfare of minors, and when those interests are being threatened by the parents, the state can intervene. I don't have a problem with that principle, and so we have to evaluate instances when the state exercises that power on the merits. Here, the merits aren't close for me - "you know, like, I don't like poison in my body so, like, maybe I'll try alternatives" is a decision of an immature child given the fact that chemo works for 80-85% of patients with this disease. And the mother isn't making any kind of alternative treatment decision that, from what we know, is remotely responsible.

    Let's put it this way - if we knew of any medical provider of any sort (a naturopath for example, who I have a great deal of respect for dealing with many conditions including my own arthritis) that was going to guide this treatment and could or did testify that it was a legitimate treatment option of this condition, I'd be all over giving them the respect that decision deserves. But that's just not in the record anywhere. If I'm missing it, then I'm basing a decision on ignorance. But that seems to me - a legitimate alternative plan to deal with deadly disease - sort of a VERY low bar that this family did not step over. As such, I don't see a problem of the slippery slope here.

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    Re: APNewsBreak: Girl says she knows she'll die without chemo

    Quote Originally Posted by Hard Truth View Post
    There have been cases where Christian Scientist parents and others have been required to provide their children with medical care despite their religious beliefs against doing so.
    There have been cases where they have gone to prison after seeing their children die because they refused. This is rare outside of cases where the parents have already had children die, or if they belonged to churches where this is a long-standing problem and other people have had children die because of their refusal.

    Still, this doesn't address my basic question which has nothing to do with this case at all, that if we're going to accept bodily autonomy, then whether someone lives or dies is entirely up to them, yet there are a lot of people out there who are so terrified of death that they're willing to assert that anyone who isn't just as terrified as they are has something wrong with them.
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    Re: APNewsBreak: Girl says she knows she'll die without chemo

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    There have been cases where they have gone to prison after seeing their children die because they refused. This is rare outside of cases where the parents have already had children die, or if they belonged to churches where this is a long-standing problem and other people have had children die because of their refusal.

    Still, this doesn't address my basic question which has nothing to do with this case at all, that if we're going to accept bodily autonomy, then whether someone lives or dies is entirely up to them, yet there are a lot of people out there who are so terrified of death that they're willing to assert that anyone who isn't just as terrified as they are has something wrong with them.
    Whether that's true or not isn't the key issue IMO - in this case the patient is a minor child. If YOU want to eat raisins soaked in gin as "cancer drugs," great, best of luck. It's different if you recommend that as treatment for your minor child with cancer when very EFFECTIVE alternatives exist and have proven to work.

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