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Thread: APNewsBreak: Girl says she knows she'll die without chemo

  1. #311
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    Re: APNewsBreak: Girl says she knows she'll die without chemo

    Quote Originally Posted by minnie616 View Post
    According to my mother's doctors, she would die in less than a year. She lived 4+ years.
    Horse sense is the thing a horse has which keeps it from betting on people. ~W.C. Fields

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    Re: APNewsBreak: Girl says she knows she'll die without chemo

    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos View Post
    According to my mother's doctors, she would die in less than a year. She lived 4+ years.
    First of all I would like to offer my deepest sympathy on the death of your mother and I am very sorry she suffered so much.

    Perhaps the chemo did lengthen your moms life.

    My very good friend had stage 4 breast cancer.

    She went trough a round of chemo and radiation and had 3 good years.
    In fact her doctor told her he thought she had been cured.
    When she went back for her 6 months checkup the cancer showed up throughout her body.

    Another round of chemo and within 6 months of the treatment she died.

    In most late stage cancer cases I would agree that one round of chemo can usually give the patient some quality time but repeated chemo puts the patient though too much misery and suffering for the little amount of time they prolong their life. If my friend had asked for my opinion I would have told her not to do the second round.
    When it comes to matters of reproduce health, Politicians and the religious dogma of another faith should never interfere with religious liberty of an individual or her faith.

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    Re: APNewsBreak: Girl says she knows she'll die without chemo

    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos View Post
    She was ordered into the hospital to receive treatment. She was not removed from her mother's custody. Understand the difference.
    Well, the state has temporary custody ("The child welfare agency investigated, and a trial court granted it temporary custody of Cassandra.") and she's being held in the hospital for what normally would be an outpatient treatment, where she could go home to her mother every day. So it looks exactly like what it would look like if she was removed from her mother's custody, but is only temporary?

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    Re: APNewsBreak: Girl says she knows she'll die without chemo

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    Some 10 year olds are probably entirely capable of making excellent adult decisions, and many 22 year olds still behave as children, so the law makes an arbitrary dividing line that, in this case, appears to be a wise one.
    Ummm..that's the reason that arbitrary lines in the sand are bad idea. :/

    Not me, the state of CT, but they just are different decisions with different risks. The medical evidence here is clear - treatment gives her an excellent shot at recovery and a long life, and no-treatment almost guarantees her early death.

    There is very little risk of permanent physical harm with an abortion, and some small risk of death as a result of carrying a baby to term. For many pregnant minors, getting consent might mean getting consent to abort from their abuser, or they may be subject to abuse should the parents learn of the pregnancy. I'm sure those involved in drafting the relevant laws considered other factors.

    But I don't need to justify or defend the abortion law in CT to consider or comment on this case. If this was an abortion thread, the rules for abortion in CT would be relevant. I'm not sure why they are critical to this case that doesn't involve abortion.
    We have already went over why it is critical in this case. The logic behind the choice arguments, besides privacy argument of course, is that it is the woman's right to choose what to do with her body and what medical treatments she wishes to have done to it. The only argument you seem to be able to muster is that the risk of abortion is low while the risk of not getting treatment here is very high. Logically however risk wouldn't come into the equation of body sovereignty arguments as the right itself gives all the authority to the individual owner of the body immaterial of risks.

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    Re: APNewsBreak: Girl says she knows she'll die without chemo

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    Well, the state has temporary custody ("The child welfare agency investigated, and a trial court granted it temporary custody of Cassandra.") and she's being held in the hospital for what normally would be an outpatient treatment, where she could go home to her mother every day. So it looks exactly like what it would look like if she was removed from her mother's custody, but is only temporary?
    How exactly is keeping her captive upholding any of her rights? How do you make someone your prisoner and your slave and uphold their rights? How do you assume control over another persons body and uphold any of their rights? How is the state not violating her rights?

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    Re: APNewsBreak: Girl says she knows she'll die without chemo

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    Well, the state has temporary custody ("The child welfare agency investigated, and a trial court granted it temporary custody of Cassandra.") and she's being held in the hospital for what normally would be an outpatient treatment, where she could go home to her mother every day. So it looks exactly like what it would look like if she was removed from her mother's custody, but is only temporary?
    From the sounds of it she is a prisoner of the state, but instead of being housed in a prison she is being housed in a hospital and having unethical doctors do treatment to her against her will.

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    Re: APNewsBreak: Girl says she knows she'll die without chemo

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Ummm..that's the reason that arbitrary lines in the sand are bad idea. :/
    They may be a "bad idea" but all the alternatives are worse....

    We have already went over why it is critical in this case. The logic behind the choice arguments, besides privacy argument of course, is that it is the woman's right to choose what to do with her body and what medical treatments she wishes to have done to it. The only argument you seem to be able to muster is that the risk of abortion is low while the risk of not getting treatment here is very high. Logically however risk wouldn't come into the equation of body sovereignty arguments as the right itself gives all the authority to the individual owner of the body immaterial of risks.
    My essential argument is they are different questions and there is no theoretical basis for requiring every medical decision to use an identical standard with regard to age and consent. And in fact, the state legislature in all its wisdom has a series of rules about medical procedures and those rules vary by procedure. This seems to be acceptable to the people of CT.

    And your 'rights' argument is fine for adults, and I would wish this deluded young woman well if at age 19 she decides that dried figs and peppermint infused saunas will cure her cancer.

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    Re: APNewsBreak: Girl says she knows she'll die without chemo

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Oh, I believe in choices, as long as they don't harm the child. You seem to be supportive of them, because "choices" like depriving a child of food, can be interpreted be in the best interest of the child, given the right conditions. That you refused to answer the question is pretty telling.
    If it's a family's decision and the "child" is 17 and within a few months of being 18 - a legal adult under the law, yes I support the right of choices up to and including choices about serious illness and death. Yes it's very telling that I support individuals rights and not government intervention.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    When their case is for "alternative medicines" and the labeling of "chemotherapy" as "poison", then it's clear that the parent doesn't have the child's best interest in mind and so the decision made by the child and parent is not in the child's best interest period.
    A very nice opinion, but not relevant - you are not the parent of that 17 year old "child".

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    If they had something along the lines of "we'll try radiotherapy" or "bone marrow transplant" or hell, any decision which could be clearly examined as them having an iota of what it is they're discussing, I would have been right by them. However, it's clear that they're not. They're simply spouting hippy anti-science nonsense.
    Not sure why you're so uncomfortable with the thought of death - people make life and death decisions all the time. I support an individuals right to live or to die as they see fit. You don't.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    And if you're unable to determine whether that injury/death is immediate, let the child die? Yes?
    It's up to the parent / guardian to make that decision. Were I the parent of that 17 year old I'd support the chemo/radiation. However, if the parent - like in this case - decided that chemo/radiation was not the best course of action and the 17 year old "child" refused chemo/radiation - I'd support that parent and 17 year old "child's" decision to do what they think is best - even if it's against the best known science and doctors advice. You keep asking the same question and I keep answering the same way - you hoping for something to change? Thought you'd know better by now but maybe you don't.
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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    Re: APNewsBreak: Girl says she knows she'll die without chemo

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    How exactly is keeping her captive upholding any of her rights? How do you make someone your prisoner and your slave and uphold their rights? How do you assume control over another persons body and uphold any of their rights? How is the state not violating her rights?
    The state determines what your rights are. There are no "natural" or "inalienable" rights and there never has been. Welcome to the real world. Father Christmas doesn't exist.

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    Re: APNewsBreak: Girl says she knows she'll die without chemo

    Quote Originally Posted by Declan View Post
    The state determines what your rights are. There are no "natural" or "inalienable" rights and there never has been. Welcome to the real world. Father Christmas doesn't exist.
    So the reason she should be held captive by the state, according to the state no less, is because she made a decision towards her own person they deem as unacceptable. Just think people like you find their actions justified.

    Btw, I like how you argue that you're a slave to the state. That's a real smart argument you have there, bro.

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