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Thread: APNewsBreak: Girl says she knows she'll die without chemo

  1. #261
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    Re: APNewsBreak: Girl says she knows she'll die without chemo

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Nope, I think the ruling is based on existing CT law otherwise, it wouldn't have gotten all the way up to the CT Supreme Court. Do you have a problem with CT's state laws now? Don't move there. Isn't that your usual counterargument for laws a person may not agree with? Look, it's simple, this mother is a new age wacko who REALLY didn't make a good case for why her decision had the child's best interest at hand. It's no different than Ockham trying to play off the belief that "starving a child" could be in a child's best interest under the right circumstances. That simply doesn't work in the adult world. She is putting her child's life at risk and the state ruled - WITHOUT LOOKING AT OTHER LAWS ON CONSENT - on this matter. That you continue to argue that abortion is important in this case, when it really has no relevance is your issue. Maybe you should become a CT lawyer and defend this girl? I'm sure you're close to proving that CT law was understood wrongly by the various courts this case has gone through.
    I lived in CT and left because of idiots like these judges.

    We aren't talking about starving a child was is abuse (there are laws against that) and which means the difference between life and death. There is no evidence that 100% states that she will live after having chemo. If you can't see the difference, I can't help you.

    I'm not trying to prove CT law is wrong. I'm pointing out the fact that some of you are applauding the government thinking for other adults and their almost-adult child. You think it's great. I find it disturbing. When I'm interested in the government's opinion on how long I should live, I'll ask them. Until then, they shouldn't assume it's their right to decide when I live and when I die. This isn't communist Russia.
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  2. #262
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    Re: APNewsBreak: Girl says she knows she'll die without chemo

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    So parents get to decide whether their children live or die? Is that what you're getting at here?
    We are talking about a medical procedure. There is no guarantee that she will die without it, and there is no guarantee that she will live with it. So there is and was no reason to force the decision other than the state deciding it wanted to control her life and her body.

    Yes, the parents have the right to make the decision on this big old "maybe" that is otherwise known as chemotherapy. And the patient had the right to have her wishes granted.
    Horse sense is the thing a horse has which keeps it from betting on people. ~W.C. Fields

  3. #263
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    Re: APNewsBreak: Girl says she knows she'll die without chemo

    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos View Post
    So all the rhetoric about abortion being a "choice" and a woman's right to Privacy being important ...
    As I said before the right to privacy only applies to a few zones of privacy,

    such as marriage, child rearing, contraception, and abortion among a few other zones.

    I do not use the term " my body, my choice" because that is not what Roe vs Wade ruled on.
    The Supreme Court decided in 1965 that women/couples had a right to privacy regarding the use contraceptives.
    The Supreme Court ruled that the right to privacy could extend to abortions before viability in the Roe vs Wade decision in 1973.
    When it comes to matters of reproduce health, Politicians and the religious dogma of another faith should never interfere with religious liberty of an individual or her faith.

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    Re: APNewsBreak: Girl says she knows she'll die without chemo

    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos View Post
    And her parents are her legal guardians. Adult legal guardians. And unlike you, I don't believe that judges and politicians are more equipped to raise my children than I am. Let them raise yours and decide what's best for your kids. I side with the parents here.
    In your case, you'd probably be correct, but I have a feeling you'd have a bit of faith in medical science and medical evidence, and even if you had doubts about the incredibly good chances of chemo here, you'd only consider alternatives with a higher chance of saving your child's life. That would be the rational and adult approach to this issue. Where is that approach in evidence from this mother?

    But sometimes parent's are irresponsible and the state has an obligation to intervene. It's your view this isn't one of those cases, but I think you'd accept that where we disagree isn't that you believe there is NO line - the parent is always right, even if it involves a meth kitchen next to the crib - but where the line should be drawn.

    I don't think the case is hard, but understand reasonable minds can differ. What I don't see, however, is the principle involved. If the mother was buying crack for her, and that was the 'treatment,' is that OK? I doubt it would be even for you. If the kid was 2? Surely you'd recognize the state's right to intervene. So what's the principle here - if the person is almost an adult and the treatment is unpleasant? I really don't know.

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    Re: APNewsBreak: Girl says she knows she'll die without chemo

    Quote Originally Posted by minnie616 View Post
    As I said before the right to privacy only applies to a few zones of privacy,

    such as marriage, child rearing, contraception, and abortion among a few other zones.

    I do not use the term " my body, my choice" because that is not what Roe vs Wade ruled on.
    The Supreme Court decided in 1965 that women/couples had a right to privacy regarding the use contraceptives.
    The Supreme Court ruled that the right to privacy could extend to abortions before viability in the Roe vs Wade decision in 1973.
    Okay, then we'll call this a privacy issue.

    And this young lady has a right to her privacy. That's what I think. Apparently many others don't think a woman really does have a right to her privacy because they are not extending the courtesy to this woman. I see that as a problem. You don't. That's okay that we disagree but I find it oddly contradictory, and pretty hypocritical.
    Horse sense is the thing a horse has which keeps it from betting on people. ~W.C. Fields

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    Re: APNewsBreak: Girl says she knows she'll die without chemo

    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos View Post
    I lived in CT and left because of idiots like these judges.
    Then don't go back. Simple solution.

    We aren't talking about starving a child was is abuse (there are laws against that) and which means the difference between life and death. There is no evidence that 100% states that she will live after having chemo. If you can't see the difference, I can't help you.
    Can you tell us the success rates of "alternative treatments"? Here is all we need to know this case:

    APNewsBreak: Girl Says She Knows She'll Die Without Chemo - ABC News

    She said by text she understands "death is the outcome of refusing chemo" but believes in "the quality of my life, not the quantity."
    When the child admits that refusing chemo leads to death, and the parent pushes that chemotherapy is poison, one must come to the conclusion that neither of these people have a clue what it is they're discussing. More importantly, neither of these people understand that the parent's "choice" is guaranteed to lead to the child's death.

    I'm not trying to prove CT law is wrong.
    Eh, apparently you are as you seem to believe that the CT Court ruled based on something other than the law. Do you believe it did? I mean, if you're right and the state doesn't have the right to determine whether a minor can receive certain treatments, then why did the CT Court rule this way? ****s and giggles?
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    Re: APNewsBreak: Girl says she knows she'll die without chemo

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    In your case, you'd probably be correct, but I have a feeling you'd have a bit of faith in medical science and medical evidence, and even if you had doubts about the incredibly good chances of chemo here, you'd only consider alternatives with a higher chance of saving your child's life. That would be the rational and adult approach to this issue. Where is that approach in evidence from this mother?

    But sometimes parent's are irresponsible and the state has an obligation to intervene. It's your view this isn't one of those cases, but I think you'd accept that where we disagree isn't that you believe there is NO line - the parent is always right, even if it involves a meth kitchen next to the crib - but where the line should be drawn.

    I don't think the case is hard, but understand reasonable minds can differ. What I don't see, however, is the principle involved. If the mother was buying crack for her, and that was the 'treatment,' is that OK? I doubt it would be even for you. If the kid was 2? Surely you'd recognize the state's right to intervene. So what's the principle here - if the person is almost an adult and the treatment is unpleasant? I really don't know.
    Come on....crack isn't a medical treatment, and it isn't legal. And we aren't talking about a baby - she's 17 and can verbalize what she wants for her body.

    I personally have a lot of faith in doctors. But that's my choice. That doesn't mean I demand that other parents have the same mindset I do.

    I didn't breastfeed any of my children. Against my doctors' recommendations, no less. That was my choice. Would it have been better if I had? All of the experts say so. But what right would anyone have to compel me to do it because it was a better alternative than Similac? I listen to doctors but they don't dictate everything. And I don't expect everyone to do or think as I do.
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    Re: APNewsBreak: Girl says she knows she'll die without chemo

    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos View Post
    We are talking about a medical procedure.
    Yes, a medical procedure with a higher chance of saving her life than alternative medicine. Again, you fail to see the fact that the parent couldn't make even an informed argument on this matter. Her case was basically dependent on a misapplied slogan, and "alternative treatment". Whatever the hell that is when it comes to cancer. What the hell was she talking about anyways? Coffee enemas a-la-Steve McQueen?

    There is no guarantee that she will die without it, and there is no guarantee that she will live with it. So there is and was no reason to force the decision other than the state deciding it wanted to control her life and her body.

    Yes, the parents have the right to make the decision on this big old "maybe" that is otherwise known as chemotherapy. And the patient had the right to have her wishes granted.
    Lmao, that's not what I asked you. I asked you whether a parent has the right to decide whether a child lives or dies. It's a simple question and completely relevant to this issue. Unlike abortion.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    Re: APNewsBreak: Girl says she knows she'll die without chemo

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Then don't go back. Simple solution.



    Can you tell us the success rates of "alternative treatments"? Here is all we need to know this case:

    APNewsBreak: Girl Says She Knows She'll Die Without Chemo - ABC News



    When the child admits that refusing chemo leads to death, and the parent pushes that chemotherapy is poison, one must come to the conclusion that neither of these people have a clue what it is they're discussing. More importantly, neither of these people understand that the parent's "choice" is guaranteed to lead to the child's death.



    Eh, apparently you are as you seem to believe that the CT Court ruled based on something other than the law. Do you believe it did? I mean, if you're right and the state doesn't have the right to determine whether a minor can receive certain treatments, then why did the CT Court rule this way? ****s and giggles?
    Until the chemo success rate is 100%, your claim that refusing it "leads to death" is false, coupled in with the fact that not every case of cancer is fatal.

    No, I'm not saying the Curt rules on something other than the law. No clue where that came from. I said I'm not trying to prove the CT law is wrong because there is no specific law that can be proven wrong, and that isn't what interests me in this thread. I'm interested in all of the posts cheering judges for playing God and doctor.

    By the way, what "alternative treatments" and their success rates am I supposed to tell "us" about? I don't know anything about the alternative treatments, nor would they have anything to do with what I've been posting about. I don't suggest she seek alternative treatments. I don't suggest she seek anything. It isn't my call to interfere with her life and her choices. And I'm not a doctor. Are you?
    Horse sense is the thing a horse has which keeps it from betting on people. ~W.C. Fields

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    Re: APNewsBreak: Girl says she knows she'll die without chemo

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Yes, a medical procedure with a higher chance of saving her life than alternative medicine. Again, you fail to see the fact that the parent couldn't make even an informed argument on this matter. Her case was basically dependent on a misapplied slogan, and "alternative treatment". Whatever the hell that is when it comes to cancer. What the hell was she talking about anyways? Coffee enemas a-la-Steve McQueen?



    Lmao, that's not what I asked you. I asked you whether a parent has the right to decide whether a child lives or dies. It's a simple question and completely relevant to this issue. Unlike abortion.
    I don't know why you're talking about alternative medicine. I'm not.

    Does a parent have a right to decide if a child lives or not? You have to ask me that question? My sister delivered a baby that was being kept alive by machines and she & my brother in law signed the order to turn off the machines and let their daughter die. So yes, they decided that baby would not live. If I were a mother in that situation I would have made the same decision. And Karen Ann Quinlan's parents were not allowed to make the same decision initially when their daughter was declared brain dead, and had to wait years for the NJ Court to rule in their favor. So there isn't really an answer to that, is there?
    Horse sense is the thing a horse has which keeps it from betting on people. ~W.C. Fields

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