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Thread: APNewsBreak: Girl says she knows she'll die without chemo

  1. #251
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    Re: APNewsBreak: Girl says she knows she'll die without chemo

    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos View Post
    Show me the CT law that says a minor is required to accept any medical treatment that he/she/the parents don't want.
    Why would I? My contention is that parental/minor's consent in order to carry out a medical procedure is not always required. That much is proven true by this ruling.

    So in other words, strangers are making a decision for this young woman, opposing her wishes and her parents' wishes, arbitrarily. And at the same time taking away her right to do with her body what she wishes.

    You think that's fine. I don't.
    There is no arbitrary decision making here. Unless of course, you believe there are other medical procedures with an 85% success rate? Do you believe that?
    Last edited by Hatuey; 01-12-15 at 09:14 PM.
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    Re: APNewsBreak: Girl says she knows she'll die without chemo

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    A seventeen year old is not a child, really.
    Some 10 year olds are probably entirely capable of making excellent adult decisions, and many 22 year olds still behave as children, so the law makes an arbitrary dividing line that, in this case, appears to be a wise one.

    Why is it different? Because you say it is?
    Not me, the state of CT, but they just are different decisions with different risks. The medical evidence here is clear - treatment gives her an excellent shot at recovery and a long life, and no-treatment almost guarantees her early death.

    There is very little risk of permanent physical harm with an abortion, and some small risk of death as a result of carrying a baby to term. For many pregnant minors, getting consent might mean getting consent to abort from their abuser, or they may be subject to abuse should the parents learn of the pregnancy. I'm sure those involved in drafting the relevant laws considered other factors.

    But I don't need to justify or defend the abortion law in CT to consider or comment on this case. If this was an abortion thread, the rules for abortion in CT would be relevant. I'm not sure why they are critical to this case that doesn't involve abortion.

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    Re: APNewsBreak: Girl says she knows she'll die without chemo

    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos View Post
    I'm wondering too, based on his post....does he think every adult who skips doctor's appointments (there are a lot of them), "runs away from home" (get mad and go back to mother's house, skip town for a few days), and fails to present "viable alternative treatments" for their medical conditions (without medical training, of course) should also be deemed to incompetent to make their own decisions, and become wards of the state?
    You highlighted the key word - ADULT. She's not one - she is a minor child.

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    Re: APNewsBreak: Girl says she knows she'll die without chemo

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Why would I? My contention is that parental/minor's consent in order to carry out a medical procedure. That much is proven true by this ruling.



    There is no arbitrary decision making here. Unless of course, you believe there are other medical procedures with an 85% success rate? Do you believe that?
    You think it's okay because of the ruling.

    I'm not like you. I don't have an opinion on it because some judge tells me what my opinion should be. Do you agree with all judges all the time - did you think Citizen's United was the right decision because it was proven true that corporations are people? Rhetorical question and OT but if you're as smart as I think you are, you get my point.

    The arbitrary decision was that there is no rule that says a minor in CT must have medical treatment that may or may not keep her alive, and her parents' wishes (and hers) didn't matter. Yes it was arbitrary. That's what these cases usually are. The success rate isn't relevant. It should be her choice - it's her life and her body.
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    Re: APNewsBreak: Girl says she knows she'll die without chemo

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    You highlighted the key word - ADULT. She's not one - she is a minor child.
    And her parents are adults. You seem to keep forgetting that.
    Horse sense is the thing a horse has which keeps it from betting on people. ~W.C. Fields

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    Re: APNewsBreak: Girl says she knows she'll die without chemo

    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos View Post
    You think it's okay because of the ruling.
    Nope, I think the ruling is based on existing CT law otherwise, it wouldn't have gotten all the way up to the CT Supreme Court. Do you have a problem with CT's state laws now? Don't move there. Isn't that your usual counterargument for laws a person may not agree with? Look, it's simple, this mother is a new age wacko who REALLY didn't make a good case for why her decision had the child's best interest at hand. It's no different than Ockham trying to play off the belief that "starving a child" could be in a child's best interest under the right circumstances. That simply doesn't work in the adult world. She is putting her child's life at risk and the state ruled - WITHOUT LOOKING AT OTHER LAWS ON CONSENT - on this matter. That you continue to argue that abortion is important in this case, when it really has no relevance is your issue. Maybe you should become a CT lawyer and defend this girl? I'm sure you're close to proving that CT law was understood wrongly by the various courts this case has gone through.
    Last edited by Hatuey; 01-12-15 at 09:18 PM.
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    Re: APNewsBreak: Girl says she knows she'll die without chemo

    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos View Post
    Her parents made the decision as well. They are not children. They are adults. This isn't just about her. Do you know what this story is about?
    Sure I know what the story is about. If the parents were cooking meth in the kitchen next to the crib, the state can't intervene because "They are adults." Of course they can and will.

    What responsible decision has the mother made here? What was the alternative treatment plan? If I'm missing something and the two had consulted an alternative medicine provider, had this person show up in court to testify about the efficacy of the proposed treatments, sure, we should give the family all kinds of due deference to make informed medical choices, backed by medical professionals, traditional or otherwise. But I see no slippery slope in the state intervening when the case between responsible decision versus reckless decision with irreversible, deadly consequences for a child are so clear cut. Like I said, I doubt the judge had a difficult time here.

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    Re: APNewsBreak: Girl says she knows she'll die without chemo

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    The medical evidence here is clear - treatment gives her an excellent shot at recovery and a long life, and no-treatment almost guarantees her early death.
    So what right does anyone else have to decide what "shot" she has and how long she's supposed to live? This is like a Death Panel in reverse. Instead of deciding who dies, the government decides who lives.

    That doesn't bother Liberals apparently. It should. The government shouldn't be playing God and they shouldn't be playing doctor. You approve of them doing both.
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    Re: APNewsBreak: Girl says she knows she'll die without chemo

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    Sure I know what the story is about. If the parents were cooking meth in the kitchen next to the crib, the state can't intervene because "They are adults." Of course they can and will.

    What responsible decision has the mother made here? What was the alternative treatment plan? If I'm missing something and the two had consulted an alternative medicine provider, had this person show up in court to testify about the efficacy of the proposed treatments, sure, we should give the family all kinds of due deference to make informed medical choices, backed by medical professionals, traditional or otherwise. But I see no slippery slope in the state intervening when the case between responsible decision versus reckless decision with irreversible, deadly consequences for a child are so clear cut. Like I said, I doubt the judge had a difficult time here.
    What does cooking meth have to do with this?

    And why do you demand an alternative medical treatment? It isn't your daughter. And the daughter herself made her own decision about what was best for her. Some people are smart like that. Even some women.
    Horse sense is the thing a horse has which keeps it from betting on people. ~W.C. Fields

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    Re: APNewsBreak: Girl says she knows she'll die without chemo

    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos View Post
    So what right does anyone else have to decide what "shot" she has and how long she's supposed to live? This is like a Death Panel in reverse. Instead of deciding who dies, the government decides who lives.

    That doesn't bother Liberals apparently. It should. The government shouldn't be playing God and they shouldn't be playing doctor. You approve of them doing both.
    So parents get to decide whether their children live or die? Is that what you're getting at here?
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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