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Thread: APNewsBreak: Girl says she knows she'll die without chemo

  1. #211
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    Re: APNewsBreak: Girl says she knows she'll die without chemo

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    "My choice, my body" applies to abortion and abortion alone. Do you deny that?
    Yeah ... says who it only applies on abortion?


    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Or do you feel parents get to decide whether a child dies?
    Yes I do as I've already stated. Women do that today prior to birth. You disagree with the abortion laws apparently.


    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    I mean, what's next? If the parent religiously indoctrinates their child and makes them believe that pedophilia is fine, the state shouldn't step in either because it's their body, their choice?
    That doesn't even make sense.
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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    Re: APNewsBreak: Girl says she knows she'll die without chemo

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    This thread has nothing to do with abortion though. This thread has to do with consent. As it stands, Connecticut abortion laws and consent in regards to those, has nothing to do with whether the minor can deny/consent to other medical treatments. As a matter of fact, Connecticut makes it clear that it's pretty much case by case issue when it comes to medical procedures. In some, consent from the minor is required. In others, the state doesn't even need that.
    The debate has to do with body sovereignty and the right to make decisions towards your own person. The state did not respect her right to her body nor did it uphold her right to life, which includes the right to die when you decide. This debate and the abortion debate are similar in that both debates are about a persons right to make medical decisions or just decisions in general towards their own person.
    Last edited by Henrin; 01-12-15 at 08:23 PM.

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    Re: APNewsBreak: Girl says she knows she'll die without chemo

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    "My choice, my body" applies to abortion and abortion alone. Do you deny that?
    Yes, I deny that. What makes the right to abort somehow different here? There is zero logic behind the idea that a woman has a right to her own body when it comes to abortion but no other case whatsoever.

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    Re: APNewsBreak: Girl says she knows she'll die without chemo

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    That doesn't even make sense.
    No, it doesn't.

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    Re: APNewsBreak: Girl says she knows she'll die without chemo

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    If the child is morbidly obese - sure.
    And if the child is not? I'm waiting for you to stop running around these questions.

    That's what the law says. Who interprets the law.... DYFS initially interprets and in order to get the child back, the parents need to go in front of a judge which may take days, weeks or months depending on the case loads.

    Correction - MAY save her life.
    As opposed to not going with chemotherapy which has.... what percentage of saving her life?

    It's not obvious to me. Let me repeat it again... if the parent and the child do not want the chemo - the child shouldn't be forced to get the chemo. Period. The child doesn't belong to the state - the treatment isn't guaranteed 100% to work - the child isn't 100% going to die without it.
    It doesn't have to be obvious to you. You've already seemed to demonstrate that your understanding of a child's welfare is dependent on your political lean and not an analysis of the case at hand. You're right, this isn't guaranteed 100% to work, no one has claimed it was. What has been claimed is that it's the option which guarantees the highest survival rate. What percentage of success do "alternative treatments" have?

    There no hole because you're talking in absolutes - I'm talking about the state extending it's power over children when it has no right to do so.
    When it checks on the child.
    Sure, maybe the parent will starve the child over an 80 year period, maybe longer. Perhaps you should have used that example.
    I'm not fond of intrusive laws.
    And the state is still not the parent/guardian of that child.
    You don't have to be fond of laws which help ensure the safety of children far more than "alternative treatments" do. When the parent of the child shows that their decision doesn't hold the best possible outcome, then the state should and must step in.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    Re: APNewsBreak: Girl says she knows she'll die without chemo

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post

    As opposed to not going with chemotherapy which has.... what percentage of saving her life?
    Treatments outside of government approved treatments have been shown to be effective.

    More you know....

  7. #217
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    Re: APNewsBreak: Girl says she knows she'll die without chemo

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    Yeah ... says who it only applies on abortion?
    It's My Body: How to Respond to the Pro-Choice Argument - LifeTeen.com for Catholic Youth
    My body, my choice: from now on, abortion rights must be fought for from first principles
    Life Training Institute Five Minute 12

    Pretty much everyone discussing this issue.

    Yes I do as I've already stated. Women do that today prior to birth. You disagree with the abortion laws apparently.

    That doesn't even make sense.
    Of course it does, your contention was that the parent can make the child belief what they want, as both of them approve of what is taking place, the state shouldn't step in.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

  8. #218
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    Re: APNewsBreak: Girl says she knows she'll die without chemo

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    And if the child is not? I'm waiting for you to stop running around these questions.
    It's as I previously stated - it would depend on the situation. It may be neglect or it may not.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    As opposed to not going with chemotherapy which has.... what percentage of saving her life?
    That's their choice. You don't like people to have choices?


    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    It isn't guaranteed 100% to work, no one has claimed it was. What has been claimed is that it's the option which guarantees the highest survival rate. What percentage of success do "alternative treatments" have?
    So a parent and child do not have the ability to choose a lower survival rate in your opinion, without the state forcing them to make a decision they don't want. Very authoritarian - but for their own good I'm sure.


    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    You don't have to be fond of laws which help ensure the safety of children far more than "alternative treatments" do.
    Forcing chemo = "help ensure the safety of children".


    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    When the parent of the child shows that their decision doesn't hold the best possible outcome, then the state should and must step in.
    And unless there is immediate danger in the form of injury or death - I disagree. Which is where we started this conversation.
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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  10. #220
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    Re: APNewsBreak: Girl says she knows she'll die without chemo

    Evidence by way of popular public opinion. You're kidding right?


    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Of course it does, your contention was that the parent can make the child belief what they want, as both of them approve of what is taking place, the state shouldn't step in.
    In this case, how is pedophilia a "my body my choice" issue? Hint: Change your example, this one is bad.

    People raise their children all sorts of ways, believing all sorts of things. Now you want to regulate what parents are allowed morally and as part of a belief system, to teach their kids.... has there even been a case of child abuse where a parent taught their children how to be a pedophile?
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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