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Thread: APNewsBreak: Girl says she knows she'll die without chemo

  1. #191
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    Re: APNewsBreak: Girl says she knows she'll die without chemo

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    As with anything what is the definition of "starving" that the state is using?
    Depriving them of food. No specific food groups in question, just food in general. Go.

    It's difficult to answer but let's take it to the extreme for the sake of your question: The state can take a child away due to extreme neglect such as starvation. In my state, NJ Law Sec 9:6-1 states:

    However, in the non-extreme case, section 9:6-1(d) states Abuse of a child can be:

    So a child can be considered "abused" when Daddy uses the F word too often. For example section (c) of that same law states:

    So badgering a child (ie., tormenting) them about doing their homework is considered "cruelty".
    http://www.nj.gov/dcf/reporting/links/[/quote]

    I think you're actually ignoring the fact that these acts must be taken towards the child and a history of abuse must be demonstrated, not just the fact that the parent drops the F bomb around the child every now and then.


    I do disagree. If the parent and the child do not want to have the chemo, then the responsibility of that child's welfare falls on the parent, not the state.
    So then when the parent fails to ensure the welfare of that child through their actions, should there be no penalty? I mean, after all, they had "a right" to do so.

    If the state wishes to bring charges against the parent - why didn't they? They had no problem taking the kid away and forcing her to have chemo. To me that's stepping over the line. If the kid believes what she says, when she turns 18 she will stop the chemo and may die anyway --- then again, she may not die.

    I do not see shared responsibility of a child as being the states obligation unless clear and immediate harm or death is involved. I agree mostly with obvious situations where children are neglected, abandoned, are beaten, starved, etc... That is not present in this case.
    So for example: a parent who takes 5 years to starve their child to death, should the state not step in because there is "immediate death" involved? Why is "immediacy" an issue when reality is that refusing the treatment guarantees she will die?
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    Re: APNewsBreak: Girl says she knows she'll die without chemo

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    That was well stated Jasper....Thank you...And from what I know, I would tend to agree, but I remain skeptically critical....But I do hope she ends up ok.
    With treatment, she'll very likely live a long and healthy life.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: APNewsBreak: Girl says she knows she'll die without chemo

    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos View Post
    Minors in Connecticut can get an abortion over the age of 15 without their parents' consent. Abortion is a medical procedure (and a very protected one):

    http://www.ct.gov/dcf/lib/dcf/child_...s_of_teens.pdf

    Page 18.
    This really has nothing to do with what I stated. The state of Connecticut makes it clear that they don't always need parental consent or for that matter that the minor doesn't get to deny/consent as he wishes. Consent/denial is dependent on the issue at hand. In this case, the court sided with doctors and child services.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    Re: APNewsBreak: Girl says she knows she'll die without chemo

    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos View Post
    No, it wasn't obvious that you made a typo. NJ and CT aren't even the same letters. I asked you why you referenced NJ.
    Yes, it's so confusing, so I'll quote myself: "I made a mistake/typo." Clear?

    So what was your post about now that we cleared up that this teen is in CT? What were you asking me what "age I was using" for?
    Try here http://www.debatepolitics.com/breaki...post1064187090

    And substitute 'CT' for 'NJ' in my response.

    You said this: "It's her body and it should be her choice what medical procedures she decides her body will endure." Obviously a 3 year old toddler doesn't get that choice, and the law in CT says she becomes an adult at age 18. So there is some age at which she gains the right to deny herself lifesaving treatment. The question is what is that age, if not 18 per the law in her state?
    Last edited by JasperL; 01-12-15 at 07:52 PM.

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    Re: APNewsBreak: Girl says she knows she'll die without chemo

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    With treatment, she'll very likely live a long and healthy life.
    And that'll be a good thing....Like I said, if this is all the story, then you're right....But, I reserve the right to remain watchful...Certainly you have no problem with that?
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    Re: APNewsBreak: Girl says she knows she'll die without chemo

    Quote Originally Posted by Hard Truth View Post
    Facts have to be considered. Research shows that alternative treatments don't work. The facts are that she will almost certainly enjoy many more years of good health after enduring a few months of the chemo ordeal. Young people are not good at deciding wisely between short term sacrifice and long term gain versus short term gain and long term consequences. Since she is a minor I support the mandatory treatment.

    If she wanted to commit suicide to avoid a six month prison sentence would you also support her right to make that decision?
    http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rZRanTFcuks

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    Re: APNewsBreak: Girl says she knows she'll die without chemo

    How can you be pro-choice and against this girl making choices towards her own body and life? I mean, how can you say in the abortion debate that forcing a woman to have an abortion is wrong, but in this debate say it is OK for the state to force this girl to have medical treatment?

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    Re: APNewsBreak: Girl says she knows she'll die without chemo

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    This really has nothing to do with what I stated. The state of Connecticut makes it clear that they don't always need parental consent or for that matter that the minor doesn't get to deny/consent as he wishes. Consent/denial is dependent on the issue at hand. In this case, the court sided with doctors and child services.
    It had to do with what I was saying. I've been asking what happened to "her body, her choice". Abortion is a medical procedure she is granted the choice to make. She should be granted the same right in this case. Just like nobody can force her to carry a pregnancy to term, nobody should be able to force her to inject chemo into her body.
    Horse sense is the thing a horse has which keeps it from betting on people. ~W.C. Fields

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    Re: APNewsBreak: Girl says she knows she'll die without chemo

    Furthermore, how can we say the government is protecting body sovereignty when they force people to take medical treatments? Did the government not assume control over this girls body by their actions? What right of hers is actually being protected here?

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    Re: APNewsBreak: Girl says she knows she'll die without chemo

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    Yes, it's so confusing, so I'll quote myself: "I made a mistake/typo." Clear?



    Try here http://www.debatepolitics.com/breaki...post1064187090
    And your post was in response to my post to Minnie about abortion. What is it you didn't understand? I wasn't talking about her legal right to sign a contract or buy a house. I was taking about abortion. So what are you confused about that you need me to clarify for you?
    Horse sense is the thing a horse has which keeps it from betting on people. ~W.C. Fields

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