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Thread: APNewsBreak: Girl says she knows she'll die without chemo

  1. #101
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    Re: APNewsBreak: Girl says she knows she'll die without chemo

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePlayDrive View Post
    Me too and I'm happy to know that if I'd been a minor and I had stupid mother who would have let me die because she believed in that my only chance at life was a "Big Pharma" conspiracy that the state would have stepped in to help me.
    If that were the case I'd agreed with you. But in this case the daughter and mother agreed. The state overstepped the mother's decision to support her daughter's decision. A more apt comparison would have been if you had decided chemo was your best alternative but the state insisted you be subjected to some other clinical treatment instead.

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    Re: APNewsBreak: Girl says she knows she'll die without chemo

    I have a customer with a Cadillac with a Northstar engine. They are known for a problem with the threads for the cylinder head studs that causes reducd sealing pressure and presents as a head gasket failure. Technically it is not the gasket that failed. To repair it you have to remove and disassemble the engine, then machine and install threaded inserts before reassembly. A lot of labor involved, overall nearly 40 hours of work. It is usually cheaper and faster to buy a used engine a couple of years newer (after the problem had been corrected) and install it. The most expensive option is to buy a remanufactured engine and install that. We're talking about 3 different approachs, each of which would correct the problem, and range between $3500 to almost $7000.

    There is another option, an additive you can put in the radiator to seal the leak. It is a method often used by people looking to sell a car they know to have a serious problem. It does not always work, and when it does it is only a matter of time before the base problem progresses and it fails again. But it is cheap and quick to do. He decided to go that route and did it himself. That was about 6 months ago, he just returned from a trip from north Georgia to Texas and back with no problems.

    Now if I had a badge and a title, would it be OK for me to take this car away from this guy and repair it as I saw fit, then charge him for the repair? Granted my intentions are noble, and I would probably go the route of the used engine, accepting the relatively small possibility of repeat failure against the higher cost of the other methods considering the age of the car. In my judgment the block sealer is a risky repair and I certainly would not have trusted it to Texas and back. But I am the professional and he is a retired salesman. Surely my opinion is superior in this case.

    You see, this is precisely what happens when government is allowed to make these decisions for you. It would not matter that this guy accepted the risks and was willing and prepared to abandon the car on the trip should it fail. That he has no time constraints and saw it as part of an adventure and enjoyed beating the odds. Or that he has now had time to research suitable replacement and has a good idea what he wants and what it will cost. No, if allowed I could have assured him a safe trip (well almost, there are no absolutes that there wouldn't be some other problem) and he would have been better off in the long run. At least that is my professional opinion. Shouldn't that be enough reason?

  3. #103
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    Re: APNewsBreak: Girl says she knows she'll die without chemo

    Quote Originally Posted by tech30528 View Post
    I have a customer with a Cadillac with a Northstar engine. They are known for a problem with the threads for the cylinder head studs that causes reducd sealing pressure and presents as a head gasket failure. Technically it is not the gasket that failed. To repair it you have to remove and disassemble the engine, then machine and install threaded inserts before reassembly. A lot of labor involved, overall nearly 40 hours of work. It is usually cheaper and faster to buy a used engine a couple of years newer (after the problem had been corrected) and install it. The most expensive option is to buy a remanufactured engine and install that. We're talking about 3 different approachs, each of which would correct the problem, and range between $3500 to almost $7000.

    There is another option, an additive you can put in the radiator to seal the leak. It is a method often used by people looking to sell a car they know to have a serious problem. It does not always work, and when it does it is only a matter of time before the base problem progresses and it fails again. But it is cheap and quick to do. He decided to go that route and did it himself. That was about 6 months ago, he just returned from a trip from north Georgia to Texas and back with no problems.

    Now if I had a badge and a title, would it be OK for me to take this car away from this guy and repair it as I saw fit, then charge him for the repair? Granted my intentions are noble, and I would probably go the route of the used engine, accepting the relatively small possibility of repeat failure against the higher cost of the other methods considering the age of the car. In my judgment the block sealer is a risky repair and I certainly would not have trusted it to Texas and back. But I am the professional and he is a retired salesman. Surely my opinion is superior in this case.

    You see, this is precisely what happens when government is allowed to make these decisions for you. It would not matter that this guy accepted the risks and was willing and prepared to abandon the car on the trip should it fail. That he has no time constraints and saw it as part of an adventure and enjoyed beating the odds. Or that he has now had time to research suitable replacement and has a good idea what he wants and what it will cost. No, if allowed I could have assured him a safe trip (well almost, there are no absolutes that there wouldn't be some other problem) and he would have been better off in the long run. At least that is my professional opinion. Shouldn't that be enough reason?
    Bad analogy.

    If a persons body dies he/she cannot abandon it beside the road and buy a new body.
    When it comes to matters of reproduce health, Politicians and the religious dogma of another faith should never interfere with religious liberty of an individual or her faith.

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    Re: APNewsBreak: Girl says she knows she'll die without chemo

    Quote Originally Posted by minnie616 View Post
    Bad analogy.

    If a persons body dies he/she cannot abandon it beside the road and buy a new body.
    (Sigh) You've missed the point. The state will kill you with no recourse (capital punishment, send you to war, drone strike, no knock raid), condone your death (abortion, refusal to investigate actions of the state), or force it's judgement on you such as in this case. Death is not the worst situation for some. It is not the government's choice to make, or at least it shouldn't be. This is kidnapping and torture plain and simple. Everybody dies. It shouldn't be up to the state how and when.

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    Re: APNewsBreak: Girl says she knows she'll die without chemo

    Quote Originally Posted by tech30528 View Post
    (Sigh) You've missed the point. The state will kill you with no recourse (capital punishment, send you to war, drone strike, no knock raid), condone your death (abortion, refusal to investigate actions of the state), or force it's judgement on you such as in this case. Death is not the worst situation for some. It is not the government's choice to make, or at least it shouldn't be. This is kidnapping and torture plain and simple. Everybody dies. It shouldn't be up to the state how and when.
    She is a minor.
    States can and often do take a compelling interest in the health/welfare of a minor.
    Last edited by minnie616; 01-11-15 at 02:40 PM.
    When it comes to matters of reproduce health, Politicians and the religious dogma of another faith should never interfere with religious liberty of an individual or her faith.

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    Re: APNewsBreak: Girl says she knows she'll die without chemo

    Quote Originally Posted by Hard Truth View Post
    I'm not sure what you mean by "individual sovereignty," it is not a term that I would use. I may support the concept depending on how it is defined and used. I might have expressed approval of the idea in the context of a thread that defined it, but I don't recall doing so.

    In this particular issue, the fact that she is a minor is my deciding factor in supporting the government in this situation.
    Ok, like I said I may have that wrong....But, she is 17, and I know that according to many parts of the law she is a minor, but just as many count her as able to make her own decisions as well...How many times over the years in these boards have I heard the argument that girls as young as 16 are capable according to law to make their own sexual decisions, and abortion decisions, and then told that I should keep government out of a girl's, like her out of her private life? Well, now all of the sudden you, (not just you) want to tell me that this is appropriate....I think you have to do better than situational ethics in this.
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    Re: APNewsBreak: Girl says she knows she'll die without chemo

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Ok, like I said I may have that wrong....But, she is 17, and I know that according to many parts of the law she is a minor, but just as many count her as able to make her own decisions as well...How many times over the years in these boards have I heard the argument that girls as young as 16 are capable according to law to make their own sexual decisions, and abortion decisions, and then told that I should keep government out of a girl's, like her out of her private life? Well, now all of the sudden you, (not just you) want to tell me that this is appropriate....I think you have to do better than situational ethics in this.
    According to the law she is a minor.
    States have the right to decide at what age girls can make sexual or abortion decisions.
    Many states require girls under 18 ( which includes 17 year olds ) have parental consent to obtain an abortion.
    In certain cases such as those where a family member might be the bio father a minor can take her case to the state courts to act in her best interest.
    When it comes to matters of reproduce health, Politicians and the religious dogma of another faith should never interfere with religious liberty of an individual or her faith.

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    Re: APNewsBreak: Girl says she knows she'll die without chemo

    Quote Originally Posted by tech30528 View Post
    If that were the case I'd agreed with you. But in this case the daughter and mother agreed. The state overstepped the mother's decision to support her daughter's decision. A more apt comparison would have been if you had decided chemo was your best alternative but the state insisted you be subjected to some other clinical treatment instead.
    Facts have to be considered. Research shows that alternative treatments don't work. The facts are that she will almost certainly enjoy many more years of good health after enduring a few months of the chemo ordeal. Young people are not good at deciding wisely between short term sacrifice and long term gain versus short term gain and long term consequences. Since she is a minor I support the mandatory treatment.

    If she wanted to commit suicide to avoid a six month prison sentence would you also support her right to make that decision?
    Last edited by Hard Truth; 01-11-15 at 08:00 PM.

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    Re: APNewsBreak: Girl says she knows she'll die without chemo

    Quote Originally Posted by Hard Truth View Post
    If she wanted to commit suicide to avoid a six month prison sentence would you also support her right to make that decision?
    If that was her choice, that's up to her. There is no "right" to do anything, if she wanted to do it and went ahead and did it, I would accept it as her choice. Rights don't enter into it.
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    Re: APNewsBreak: Girl says she knows she'll die without chemo

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Ok, like I said I may have that wrong....But, she is 17, and I know that according to many parts of the law she is a minor, but just as many count her as able to make her own decisions as well...How many times over the years in these boards have I heard the argument that girls as young as 16 are capable according to law to make their own sexual decisions, and abortion decisions, and then told that I should keep government out of a girl's, like her out of her private life? Well, now all of the sudden you, (not just you) want to tell me that this is appropriate....I think you have to do better than situational ethics in this.
    This a life or death decision. The statistics show that the treatment will almost certainly be effective and she will be healthy after recovery. She can always choose to die later, but she will not have the option to get rid of her cancer in the future if it isn't effectively treated in time.

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