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Thread: Obama Proposes 2 Years of Free Community College

  1. #201
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    Re: Obama Proposes 2 Years of Free Community College

    Quote Originally Posted by Declan View Post
    I think part of the problem now is that no job is that safe and there are no worst case scenario fall back jobs for people in which they can have some psychological comfort. "If worse comes to worst, I can work in the <factory> <mine> <plant>." No fallback position and the likelihood of people having to have multiple careers over their lives affect confidence, and confidence affects the economy. We may not have experienced an economic depression, but I think the public psyche has been fighting a psychological one. Hopefully the job scene will stabilize enough in the places where they are still very much in flux to give people confidence again that they do not have to go on welfare forever or move to New York and wash dishes with the Guatemalans.
    Sure.

    Maybe that's a good reason why we should be supporting a broad based curriculum in college at the Bachelors degree level, rather than specialization. If a worker has a solid liberal arts education (not to exclude math and science), then it shouldn't be all that difficult to retrain for a different career on an as needed bases.

    Many masters degrees can be obtained in a year or a year plus a summer, assuming that the student has the prerequests for that masters. And a associates in a particular field could probably also be acquired in a year, if the student already has all the general ed requirements. In today's world, an employer might advertise for someone with a BS in a particular subject, but may be perfectly fine with hiring someone who has an AA degree in that field as long as they also have a Bachelors degree (in anything).

    Few working adults who find that their job skills have become obsoleted are going to be very enthusiastic about starting from scratch and attending college for four years. But if they could obtain education/creditials for a different field in a year or so, it's goint to be a lot less intimidating to them, and a lot more doable.

    All of this is why I believe that the Bachelors degree should be a broad based liberal arts degree, taking a course or two in just about every subject one can imagine, and allowing the masters degree to be the "major". Lot's of colleges now offer "Bachelors of Interdisciplinary Arts", and it sounds a little hokey, but it makes a heck of a lot of sense for someone who is grad school bound.
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    I see a big problem with the idea that whatever the majority wants is OK.

  2. #202
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    Re: Obama Proposes 2 Years of Free Community College

    Quote Originally Posted by jonny5 View Post
    If that were true, they wouldnt use the word free.
    It's a matter of perspective, and the way they are using the word. It could be free to the individual (as in costing the individual no more than not attending college) relative to our current system.

    I agree that most everyone realizes that there are costs associated with everything, but when there is no additional cost to the person who attends college, relatively, it's free.
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    I see a big problem with the idea that whatever the majority wants is OK.

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    Re: Obama Proposes 2 Years of Free Community College

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    Just for future reference. Everyone knows that nothing is free. Everyone knows that if you have a public program that it is paid for with taxes. Everyone knows this.
    you are both correct an incorrect.

    it's certainly not "free".... but our taxes do not pay for it.

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    Re: Obama Proposes 2 Years of Free Community College

    I'm confused about this because wasn't it basically already free? When I went to community college I remember paying next to nothing and I received Pell Grants (technically they paid me).
    Ted Cruz is the dumbest person alive.

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    Re: Obama Proposes 2 Years of Free Community College

    Quote Originally Posted by whysoserious View Post
    I'm confused about this because wasn't it basically already free? When I went to community college I remember paying next to nothing and I received Pell Grants (technically they paid me).
    https://trends.collegeboard.org/site...debt-brief.pdf

    A few years ago the average cost was apparently around $2700/yr, but that doesn't include books and fees or living expenses. It's probably higher now, and certainly higher in some areas. Not everyone get's a pell grant either.

    But you are right, it's not a huge sum. In my state, we have a state lottery scholarship, three different levels of awards, depending on ones hs grades and SAT score. The top level scholarship would cover the full price of community college, plus books and fees, plus a chunk of spending money, but even the lowest level pays for most of our local community college. Students in the bottom half of their hs class don't get crap, but maybe it should be that way.
    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    ...I'm not interested in debating someone who is trolling for an argument....
    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    I see a big problem with the idea that whatever the majority wants is OK.

  6. #206
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    Re: Obama Proposes 2 Years of Free Community College

    Quote Originally Posted by imagep View Post
    Sure.

    Maybe that's a good reason why we should be supporting a broad based curriculum in college at the Bachelors degree level, rather than specialization. If a worker has a solid liberal arts education (not to exclude math and science), then it shouldn't be all that difficult to retrain for a different career on an as needed bases.

    Many masters degrees can be obtained in a year or a year plus a summer, assuming that the student has the prerequests for that masters. And a associates in a particular field could probably also be acquired in a year, if the student already has all the general ed requirements. In today's world, an employer might advertise for someone with a BS in a particular subject, but may be perfectly fine with hiring someone who has an AA degree in that field as long as they also have a Bachelors degree (in anything).

    Few working adults who find that their job skills have become obsoleted are going to be very enthusiastic about starting from scratch and attending college for four years. But if they could obtain education/creditials for a different field in a year or so, it's goint to be a lot less intimidating to them, and a lot more doable.

    All of this is why I believe that the Bachelors degree should be a broad based liberal arts degree, taking a course or two in just about every subject one can imagine, and allowing the masters degree to be the "major". Lot's of colleges now offer "Bachelors of Interdisciplinary Arts", and it sounds a little hokey, but it makes a heck of a lot of sense for someone who is grad school bound.
    the reason it sounds hokey is because people with IDS degrees are usually the ones who either couldn't make up their minds or bounced out of their degree too late to get the pre-req's in another discipline. I disagree with your proposal though. If someone wants to focus on a specific field, they should be able to do so without having to go get a masters just to do it. As for employers, I suspect that a great many are more worried about can they start today and do the job, than a degree, so work experience still matters too unless it is some government bureaucratic policy at play.

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    Re: Obama Proposes 2 Years of Free Community College

    Quote Originally Posted by imagep View Post
    https://trends.collegeboard.org/site...debt-brief.pdf

    A few years ago the average cost was apparently around $2700/yr, but that doesn't include books and fees or living expenses. It's probably higher now, and certainly higher in some areas. Not everyone get's a pell grant either.

    But you are right, it's not a huge sum. In my state, we have a state lottery scholarship, three different levels of awards, depending on ones hs grades and SAT score. The top level scholarship would cover the full price of community college, plus books and fees, plus a chunk of spending money, but even the lowest level pays for most of our local community college. Students in the bottom half of their hs class don't get crap, but maybe it should be that way.
    I don't remember what I paid back in the 80's (actually, Uncle Sam paid for it), but now it's $84 a credit hour here in Phoenix.
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    Re: Obama Proposes 2 Years of Free Community College

    Quote Originally Posted by DDD View Post
    Some may be less fortunate to be aware of their career potentials in time. It may take longer time within education with them.
    That may be true and we are very bad at handling differences in achievement patterns. But putting people that do not belong there through college is a waste of money and scarce assets. It reduces the amount of help we can give others that would thrive.

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    Re: Obama Proposes 2 Years of Free Community College

    Quote Originally Posted by azgreg View Post
    That's not true. Everybody I know (on the left and right) thinks higher education costs are too damn high.
    They might think it, but it's certainly never been a talking point of the left that we need to get a handle on college costs. They just try and figure out how to get more money to pay these crazy tuition costs. They never speak about them like they do with other areas that make money. And that's because it's a left dominated sector.
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    Re: Obama Proposes 2 Years of Free Community College

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthony60 View Post
    They might think it, but it's certainly never been a talking point of the left that we need to get a handle on college costs. They just try and figure out how to get more money to pay these crazy tuition costs. They never speak about them like they do with other areas that make money. And that's because it's a left dominated sector.
    Addressing Rising College Prices and Increasing Transparency | Democrats -Committee on Education and the Workforce, U.S. House of Representatives
    Higher Education | Democrats -Committee on Education and the Workforce, U.S. House of Representatives
    Democratic Party on Education
    Senate Democrats propose free college tuition funded by reducing corporate tax credits | MLive.com
    Pres. Obama Reveals Progressive Plan To Lower The Cost Of College Tuition | Occupy Democrats
    Bill sponsored by Wisconsin Democrats would ease student loan debt

    I'd offer more, but I limited myself to a 2 minute search. Members of both parties are concerned with rising education costs.
    I have CDO, it's like OCD but the letters are in alphabetical order like they should be.

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