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Thread: Obama Proposes 2 Years of Free Community College

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    Re: Obama Proposes 2 Years of Free Community College

    Quote Originally Posted by longview View Post
    History has not shown that, Better educated people have more choices than just what they are trained in.
    A degree opens up other opportunities....
    So rather than technical degrees oriented to just one skill or profession, maybe we should be concentrating more on a broad based education which could be applicable to any work setting.

    I've always thought that we are concerned to much with "majors", rather than getting an education.
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    ...I'm not interested in debating someone who is trolling for an argument....
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    I see a big problem with the idea that whatever the majority wants is OK.

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    Re: Obama Proposes 2 Years of Free Community College

    Quote Originally Posted by imagep View Post
    So rather than technical degrees oriented to just one skill or profession, maybe we should be concentrating more on a broad based education which could be applicable to any work setting.

    I've always thought that we are concerned to much with "majors", rather than getting an education.
    It is kind of a double edge sword.
    Industry would like to have students that can hit the ground running if possible.
    The Students benefit the most from the broad based education.
    The difference between an AS vs AAS or a BS vs BA degree in the number of major hours in the
    curriculum.
    The students need enough depth in the subject to understand what is going on,
    but should also have enough breath of education to see how their own small piece
    fits into the broader picture.
    The trouble is a Associates degree is only 20 classes, and a BS, BA is only 40 classes.
    Sticking all that depth and breath into small integer numbers like that is difficult.

  3. #193
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    Re: Obama Proposes 2 Years of Free Community College

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    It depends on the degree. Sure for a law degree it matters where you went to law school, but for an IT degree, unless you plan on working at Google, it doesn't really matter where you went and experience level will dictate your future compensation. The same is true for an RN. For technical fields in particular, college is not about prestige, its literally about gaining skills.
    If you're planning on being a Technican, then go to a vocational/trade school. This already cost much less than community college and students can earn certification in less time. But we're not talking about vocational/trade school, we're talking about community college, which won't be enough if you're planning on being somebody.

    Community college only serves a few menial purposes: 1) to prepare undecided students for real college 2) to get those who flunked out of a real college a second chance, boosting their GPA for readmittance.

    Not to mention, community college doesn't offer as many majors as a regular college. Even if you do plan on transfering to a regular public/private school, a couple of your credits won't be transferable.

    Community college is nice for exploring your academic options, but that's all its used for.

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    Re: Obama Proposes 2 Years of Free Community College

    I don't know about other states, but here in Arizona the big universities (University of Arizona, Arizona State, and Northern Arizona) have an excellent relationship with the community colleges. The community colleges all have degree programs designed specifically for transfer to the big schools if that's the goal of the student. This is the route that me and my wife took and it worked out quite well. Classes were smaller in size (20-30 students vs 200+ student lecture halls) and I was actually able to discuss things with my professor as apposed to a TA.
    I have CDO, it's like OCD but the letters are in alphabetical order like they should be.

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    Re: Obama Proposes 2 Years of Free Community College

    Quote Originally Posted by Declan View Post
    The math-science magnet school in our system has 99-100% college acceptance rate depending on whether or not a couple people opt for the military instead. I like the direction of specialty schools. I really don't care if someone can answer jeopardy questions as long as they have a realistic chance at good opportunity when they walk out the door. I just don't pretend that they are anything other than what they are. Some kids do well academically and some do not.
    And far too many are pressured into attending college when they don't really want to be there. This isn't anything new; there was never any question at all (except by me) whether I was going to college, only where. I get that, and this is why I think that a year or two of working is so helpful in clarifying goals while one is learning how to be independent, which includes living with the consequences of the choices you've made.

    Further, there are far, far too many college students today who are simply unequipped to do college-level work. They haven't mastered the basics--they can't comprehend what they read (including newspaper articles, much less longer and more thoughtful works), they can't write, and they can't do basic math. They have limited critical thinking skills. At the same time, too many have been falsely validated their entire lives by being awarded a trophy just for showing up.

    The consequence is that colleges and universities are continuing to dumb down their offerings, particularly the "core curriculum" courses, meaning that the unearned social promotions lead them into more advanced coursework for which they are also entirely unprepared.

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    Re: Obama Proposes 2 Years of Free Community College

    Quote Originally Posted by nota bene View Post
    And far too many are pressured into attending college when they don't really want to be there. This isn't anything new; there was never any question at all (except by me) whether I was going to college, only where. I get that, and this is why I think that a year or two of working is so helpful in clarifying goals while one is learning how to be independent, which includes living with the consequences of the choices you've made.

    Further, there are far, far too many college students today who are simply unequipped to do college-level work. They haven't mastered the basics--they can't comprehend what they read (including newspaper articles, much less longer and more thoughtful works), they can't write, and they can't do basic math. They have limited critical thinking skills. At the same time, too many have been falsely validated their entire lives by being awarded a trophy just for showing up.

    The consequence is that colleges and universities are continuing to dumb down their offerings, particularly the "core curriculum" courses, meaning that the unearned social promotions lead them into more advanced coursework for which they are also entirely unprepared.
    I think part of the problem now is that no job is that safe and there are no worst case scenario fall back jobs for people in which they can have some psychological comfort. "If worse comes to worst, I can work in the <factory> <mine> <plant>." No fallback position and the likelihood of people having to have multiple careers over their lives affect confidence, and confidence affects the economy. We may not have experienced an economic depression, but I think the public psyche has been fighting a psychological one. Hopefully the job scene will stabilize enough in the places where they are still very much in flux to give people confidence again that they do not have to go on welfare forever or move to New York and wash dishes with the Guatemalans.

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    Re: Obama Proposes 2 Years of Free Community College

    Quote Originally Posted by WallStreetVixen View Post
    If you're planning on being a Technican, then go to a vocational/trade school. This already cost much less than community college and students can earn certification in less time. But we're not talking about vocational/trade school, we're talking about community college, which won't be enough if you're planning on being somebody.

    Community college only serves a few menial purposes: 1) to prepare undecided students for real college 2) to get those who flunked out of a real college a second chance, boosting their GPA for readmittance.

    Not to mention, community college doesn't offer as many majors as a regular college. Even if you do plan on transfering to a regular public/private school, a couple of your credits won't be transferable.

    Community college is nice for exploring your academic options, but that's all its used for.
    It all depends on the degree route they go in. For example, an individual can enroll in a decent community college and get an Associate of Computer Science. From there they can get an entry level C#, Python, or Rails developer job that would start them around 55k a year or so depending on the market. Within 10 years they should be up around 85k or more just from increased experience. Hell in 15 years just with that associate degree to start them out, they could be a lead programmer earning 100k. In fact, there probably will be no difference in their salary level by the time they are in their mid 30s if they had a 2 year or 4 year computer science degree as by then their salary will be dictated by their skill level and experience.

    An individual could also get an Associate Science of Nursing from a community college and become an RN. That is a good job to have that is recession proof. Moreover they could later continue their education and make more money later on.
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    Re: Obama Proposes 2 Years of Free Community College

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    Just for future reference. Everyone knows that nothing is free. Everyone knows that if you have a public program that it is paid for with taxes. Everyone knows this.
    If that were true, they wouldnt use the word free.

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    Re: Obama Proposes 2 Years of Free Community College

    Quote Originally Posted by azgreg View Post
    I don't know about other states, but here in Arizona the big universities (University of Arizona, Arizona State, and Northern Arizona) have an excellent relationship with the community colleges. The community colleges all have degree programs designed specifically for transfer to the big schools if that's the goal of the student. This is the route that me and my wife took and it worked out quite well. Classes were smaller in size (20-30 students vs 200+ student lecture halls) and I was actually able to discuss things with my professor as apposed to a TA.
    It's the same way in SC. Every large college has a two year college that is associated with it, and sometimes the students at the two year college can even participate in extra-curriculars at the four year college. I know one student who attended the two year college but was in the marching band at the four year college.

    Midlands Tech is associated with the U of SC (columbia campus), Spartanburg Community College is associated with the U of SC (Upstate Campus), Tri-County tech is associated with Clemson U, Greenville Tech is associated with Furman U, etc.
    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    ...I'm not interested in debating someone who is trolling for an argument....
    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    I see a big problem with the idea that whatever the majority wants is OK.

  10. #200
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    Re: Obama Proposes 2 Years of Free Community College

    Quote Originally Posted by nota bene View Post
    And far too many are pressured into attending college when they don't really want to be there. This isn't anything new; there was never any question at all (except by me) whether I was going to college, only where. I get that, and this is why I think that a year or two of working is so helpful in clarifying goals while one is learning how to be independent, which includes living with the consequences of the choices you've made.

    Further, there are far, far too many college students today who are simply unequipped to do college-level work. They haven't mastered the basics--they can't comprehend what they read (including newspaper articles, much less longer and more thoughtful works), they can't write, and they can't do basic math. They have limited critical thinking skills. At the same time, too many have been falsely validated their entire lives by being awarded a trophy just for showing up.

    The consequence is that colleges and universities are continuing to dumb down their offerings, particularly the "core curriculum" courses, meaning that the unearned social promotions lead them into more advanced coursework for which they are also entirely unprepared.
    I suspect that the percent of our population who aren't really prepared for college is no different than it was fifty years ago, but we do have a larger percentage attending college, thus it's quite natural that more college students are unprepared. But maybe I'm wrong, it's just my opinion.
    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    ...I'm not interested in debating someone who is trolling for an argument....
    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    I see a big problem with the idea that whatever the majority wants is OK.

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