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Thread: Obama Proposes 2 Years of Free Community College

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    Re: Obama Proposes 2 Years of Free Community College

    Quote Originally Posted by imagep View Post
    From an income standpoint, maybe. But it does mean that employers have a large choice of educated potential employees.

    When it comes to education, I would rather err on the side of an over educated society than an under educated one.
    Flooding a market just means that you are going to have a bunch of people with skills they can't find work doing. Promoting the idea that supply should just ignore demand is going to lead to people suffering.

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    Re: Obama Proposes 2 Years of Free Community College

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Few care about the affordability of postsecondary education except for a group of voters with fickle devotion to voting and little political clout.

    I would be more interested in trading the Keystone Pipeline for the Democrats' traditional plank for infrastructure development as a means of trading political blows. There's been much more discussion surrounding that than postsecondary education. Keystone is going to be the Congress's first big priority this session and some Democrats keep hammering the jobs claims.
    Keystone is dead in the water. Republicans in Congress wouldn't work with the Dems if they were the last men on earth either, its' much too dangerous for them. Look at their performance in the House for the last 2 years if you want a clue. There also will not be enough votes to overturn Obama's certain veto. Give Obama a little credit. He has warned Congress more than once that he won't allow them to overturn the normal protocols and they still keep pushing. Not to mention its a stupid thing and he has said as much.
    Last edited by iguanaman; 01-09-15 at 12:42 AM.

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    Re: Obama Proposes 2 Years of Free Community College

    Quote Originally Posted by imagep View Post
    From an income standpoint, maybe. But it does mean that employers have a large choice of educated potential employees.

    When it comes to education, I would rather err on the side of an over educated society than an under educated one.
    I would too, but I am not certain this would be it. In higher education, one wonders if this is the reform one would want to see spread throughout the country. There's two other issues at play, neither of which would be addressed. The first is the decreased levels of funding in many states. For some, the claim now is that the schools rely more on tuition fees than state allocations. The second is an overwhelming level of administrative bloat. It would seem these two issues are a significant reason why tuition & fees are continuing to rise. To what extent the executive office and/or the legislative branch could address these is probably difficult to perceive.

    The President also has a difficult year coming up for higher ed issues as he is essentially instituting his own higher ed version of Goals 2000. It's probably going to be very very informal and also a point of contention to most administrations in colleges across the country, but a signal of things to come.
    Michael J Petrilli-"Is School Choice Enough?"-A response to the recent timidity of American conservatives toward education reform. https://nationalaffairs.com/publicat...-choice-enough

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    Re: Obama Proposes 2 Years of Free Community College

    Quote Originally Posted by iguanaman View Post
    Keystone is dead in the water. There will not be enough votes to overturn Obama's certain veto. Give Obama a little credit. He has warned Congress more than once that he won't allow them to overturn the normal protocols and they still keep pushing. Not to mention its a stupid thing and he has said as much.
    Keystone may be dead in the water (there's still more desperate measures available), but if he wanted to poke at the Republicans some more about infrastructure, he's got it. Over the next few months internal developments will be a big talking point. If Obama wanted to do all that you were discussing, I think he would have picked another target instead of what amounts to being merely an extensive scholarship for people going to college.
    Last edited by Fiddytree; 01-09-15 at 12:45 AM.
    Michael J Petrilli-"Is School Choice Enough?"-A response to the recent timidity of American conservatives toward education reform. https://nationalaffairs.com/publicat...-choice-enough

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    Re: Obama Proposes 2 Years of Free Community College

    I find it anything but amusing that our GOP Conservative friends don't look at Obama's idea as a voucher program, their holy grail.
    As I previously stated, I'd like to see this program available for hard-working middle-class families in the 3rd year of college, 1st year at a 4-year.
    Many of these families are able to escape debt the first two years at CC--many are not.

    Without my own children, I have only two nieces and one nephew left to finish college--two with little debt and one with major.
    The future accountant is already making money with a firm.
    The future nurse is in a good field for a future job and must do well with her internships, as I did in student teaching way back when.
    The future engineer knows just how important future COOPs are, the opportunity for a company to take her on and pay for some college.

    Making sure that the next generation in my family doesn't have to pay back debt as I did in the 1980s is my dream.
    But it's still on them to get the grades--it's on me as their Uncle to make sure they have the means.

    So from my perspective, I've got good reason to resent Fletch demeaning a CC degree.
    Many kids need this stepping stone from HS to a 4-year school and further .

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Americans structure higher education as a means of gaining competitive employment opportunities rather than edification. In many fields where the prospective employees are many and the jobs are few, you see a rise in artificial requirements. A scholar in waiting, rather than merely needing to be a freshly-minted PhD with a book perhaps on the way need only apply when he has successfully published two books and maintained a few years of teaching experience. What was once prime material becomes inferior to ever-greater work experience, education, and acquisitions of status.

    The market requires workers demonstrate superiority to his fellow man. Elitism becomes the saving grace for a prospective employee.

    There's at the very least, some method to Fletch's madness.
    Physics is Phun

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    Re: Obama Proposes 2 Years of Free Community College

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Keystone may be dead in the water, but if he wanted to poke at the Republicans some more about infrastructure, he's got it. Over the next few months internal developments will be a big talking point. If Obama wanted to do all that you were discussing, I think he would have picked another target instead of what amounts to being merely an extensive scholarship for people going to college.
    Obama continues to bedevil the GOP since the election, as you've already seen with the lame duck.
    Boehner had 67 GOPs vote against him on the cromnibus and 25 more on his Speakership.
    And then he had his Grimm problem and still has his Scalise problem.

    So Obama's doing what he does best--get out of DC and use the bully pulpit.
    Though I agree he should have waited on the veto threat.
    Instead he should have said he would trust McConnell on the open amendment process .
    Physics is Phun

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    Re: Obama Proposes 2 Years of Free Community College

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Keystone may be dead in the water, but if he wanted to poke at the Republicans some more about infrastructure, he's got it. Over the next few months internal developments will be a big talking point. If Obama wanted to do all that you were discussing, I think he would have picked another target instead of what amounts to being merely an extensive scholarship for people going to college.
    Obama can't do anything with Congress it is dead to him. The Republicans are planning "poison pen" appropriation bills with riders dismantling anything from the ACA to the EPA that he will need to veto regardless of the economic hit the country may take. The Republican can't work with the Dems even if they wanted to because they risk being branded RINO and get booted next election. surely you have seen all this in the last 2 years, nothing has really changed. Only that the bills will stop at Obama desk instead of Reids. The Republicans are in no shape to govern in any meaningful way. Obama is on his own as usual. He's gotten pretty good at it too.
    Last edited by iguanaman; 01-09-15 at 12:54 AM.

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    Re: Obama Proposes 2 Years of Free Community College

    Quote Originally Posted by iguanaman View Post
    Obama can't do anything with Congress it is dead to him. The Republicans are planning "poison pen" appropriation bills with riders dismantling anything from the ACA to the EPA that he will need to veto regardless of the economic hit the country may take. The Republican can't work with the Dems even if they wanted to because they risk being branded RINO and get booted next election. surely you have seen all this in the last 2 years, nothing has really changed. Only that the bills will stop at Obama desk instead of Reids. The Republicans are in no shape to govern in any meaningful way. Obama is on his own as usual. He's gotten pretty good at it too.
    What I am saying is that this plan isn't to call the GOP's bluff so much as to try to continue swaying young people.
    Michael J Petrilli-"Is School Choice Enough?"-A response to the recent timidity of American conservatives toward education reform. https://nationalaffairs.com/publicat...-choice-enough

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    Re: Obama Proposes 2 Years of Free Community College

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenton View Post
    Nothing is free and someone is going to pay for it.

    As most Progresssive Policies wind up nailing the Middle class consumers I'm guessing it will be them.

    Anyway, whats the point of 2 years of free College ? In the Obama economy it just means you're still unemployed in 2 years.
    nice quip, but incorrect as the jobless rates for college graduates and community college graduates was much lower than national average, currently and through the recession....

    http://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/29/up...abt=0002&abg=0
    http://www.businessinsider.com/colle...t-rates-2013-6
    Last edited by upsideguy; 01-09-15 at 01:05 AM.

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    Re: Obama Proposes 2 Years of Free Community College

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    What I am saying is that this plan isn't to call the GOP's bluff so much as to try to continue swaying young people.
    And their parents....Most parents want their children to have a chance to go to college don't they?

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