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Atlanta Ousts Fire Chief Who Has Antigay Views

Cryptic said:
I had a supervisor in Los Angeles who was openly lesbian, placed discreet, but still very noticable, "rainbow" themed decorations in her office and made it known that she was an atheist. In personal conversations to me, she let me know she had a dim view of the social role of orgainized religion- of any sort.

Since by local standards, I was a very conservative Christian (active church goer), could I demand her removal based on the possibility that she might be hostile to me as an individual and then might seek to punish me for my views by hindering my advancement?

Or, would I have needed to wait until she actually did something that I could prove?
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I would have discussed it with the company's HR person, have it on the record.
 
Risky Thicket said:
According to reports and statements by City of Atlanta officials he gave the books out at work to subordinates. And it does matter who he involved in that he reportedly referred to the City of Atlanta in his book.
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I can refer to whoever I want with my first amendment right. As long as I do it correctly. Did he give them out on his time or the cities? Being at work doesn't really mean much if he were on break I suppose.
 
stonewall50 said:
It doesn't really matter who he involved. Did he give it to them on his own time? Or not?
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The evidence points to that he likely did do it on company time.
 
stonewall50 said:
It doesn't really matter who he involved. Did he give it to them on his own time? Or not?
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That's actually irrelevant. On or off the clock he will have made his feelings clear and, should there actually have been any gay firemen in the department, will have created a hostile work environment.
 
Cardinal said:
That's actually irrelevant. On or off the clock he will have made his feelings clear and, should there actually have been any gay firemen in the department, will have created a hostile work environment.
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So you are no longer free to say what you wish? He has no first amendment.
 
Cardinal said:
Sure he does, and he exercised it just fine.
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How does he have his right if he is fired for using it? Shouldn't the city half to remain impartial on a view they don't like? Or do you think it is a good precedent to let people be fired for controversial views?
 
Cardinal said:
Sure he does, and he exercised it just fine.
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some people will continue to ignore this fact over and over again and instead repeat the lies "he was fired for writing a book" "he was fired for his religious views" "he was fired over his religion" etc etc all dishonest hyperpole
 
AGENT J said:
some people will continue to ignore this fact over and over again and instead repeat the lies "he was fired for writing a book" "he was fired for his religious views" "he was fired over his religion" etc etc all dishonest hyperpole
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Well, the facts destroy their argument! What else do you expect them to do?
 
stonewall50 said:
How does he have his right if he is fired for using it?
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Was he arrested for his belief? If the answer to that is anything but "yes," then he exercised his constitutionally protected right to free speech. And even then there is precedent for being arrested for free speech anyway. You've been around here long enough to have heard the "yelling fire in a crowded theater" example enough times to cry by now, I'm sure.

stonewall50 said:
Shouldn't the city half to remain impartial on a view they don't like?
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So the chief doesn't have to be impartial regarding his own beliefs, but everyone else has to remain impartial toward the chief's beliefs. Right-o.

stonewall50 said:
Or do you think it is a good precedent to let people be fired for controversial views?
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He was fired for creating a hostile work environment, and probably for reflecting badly on the image of diversity and tolerance the mayor was almost certainly interested in maintaining.
 
AGENT J said:
1.) good thats step one, your second step will be to fix your issue now that you see it
2.) please post the factual examples that prove your statement true . .
3.) see #2
4.) see #2
5.) see #2
6.) and facts proved you wrong along with the very definition of a straw man, remind us what you had on your side beseds "nu-huh"
but i do agree you try was VERY entertaining, thank you
7.) theres no reason too
8.) see #2
your post fails and fact win again

so I'm still waiting for you to post one fact that proves your claim true . . . ONE . . not stuff you make up but actually facts, when you can do this please let us know
failed insults wont change the fact that your claim was destroyed and proven wrong, its just a common move by those that have no logical, factual and honest path to take.

so in your next post PLEASE fulfill this request . . thank you
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HAHA Translation: You lose!


Tim-
 
Hicup said:
HAHA Translation: You lose!


Tim-
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another dodge, thats what i thought
when push comes to shove all talk and no results because your posts got nothing
maybe in your next post youll post ONE single fact that supports your failed and destroyed claims . . . . one
but i bet you keep dodging and deflecting
your posts fails and facts win again
 
Risky Thicket said:
LOL! There's no way I'd read his book either. He has been quoted as saying in the book that he is (was) the fire chef for rescue (and something I can't recall) for the City of Atlanta and also that as the fire chief Cochran wrote that his "job description" is to "cultivate the department's culture for the glory of God," as well as to focus on the mission of saving lives and property.

Here again his job has zip connection to his religion, but Cochran connected the two for some reason in his book. I suspect he used his title and connection as a way to lend credence to the author and thus the book.
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If this is true and he specifically mentioned his employer, then they had every right to fire him.
 
Cardinal said:
Was he arrested for his belief? If the answer to that is anything but "yes," then he exercised his constitutionally protected right to free speech. And even then there is precedent for being arrested for free speech anyway. You've been around here long enough to have heard the "yelling fire in a crowded theater" example enough times to cry by now, I'm sure.



So the chief doesn't have to be impartial regarding his own beliefs, but everyone else has to remain impartial toward the chief's beliefs. Right-o.



He was fired for creating a hostile work environment, and probably for reflecting badly on the image of diversity and tolerance the mayor was almost certainly interested in maintaining.
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Actually, if you draw a line directly from your first point to your third point, then yes, you could make the argument that he was fired for his beliefs, so no, his right to free speech wasn't protected. You're right, you can't yell "fire" in a theater (I detest that overused phrase). But "hostile work environment" protection only extends to "protected classes". In other words, I could say knowing that my boss enjoys slaughtering baby sheep and cows results in an uncomfortable/hostile work environment for me, but I wouldn't have a leg to stand on legally with my HR department.

Couldn't subordinates now technically make a case with HR that their manager attending or acting as an elder in a church that teaches the same things about the gay lifestyle that Cochran included in his book create a hostile/uncomfortable work environment for them?
 
Cryptic said:
I had a supervisor in Los Angeles who was openly lesbian, placed discreet, but still very noticable, "rainbow" themed decorations in her office and made it known that she was an atheist. In personal conversations to me, she let me know she had a dim view of the social role of orgainized religion- of any sort.

Since by local standards, I was a very conservative Christian (active church goer), could I demand her removal based on the possibility that she might be hostile to me as an individual and then might seek to punish me for my views by hindering my advancement?

Or, would I have needed to wait until she actually did something that I could prove?
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Excellent. My sentiments exactly.

His firing was based on assumptions.
 
Risky Thicket said:
Huh? Perverts, filthy, pedophiles, animal ****ers? Those are terms of endearment and acceptance? How about wops, paddies, chinks, niggers, kikes, lazy, drunks, smelly and cunning? How about mackerel snappers, papists and sand niggers?
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Not.
Discrimination is action that denies social participation or human rights to categories of people based on prejudice. This includes treatment of an individual or group based on their actual or perceived membership in a certain group or social category, "in a way that is worse than the way people are usually treated".

There's no evidence he ever actually discriminated against anyone or group in his tenor.
 
Cardinal said:
That's actually irrelevant. On or off the clock he will have made his feelings clear and, should there actually have been any gay firemen in the department, will have created a hostile work environment.
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The Chief said he only gave the book to those who he had established a Christian relationship with.

Because the book had been published, it was available to anyone who wanted to read it. They created their own hostile environment by citing a book that could have just as well been the Bible.
 
WCH said:
The Chief said he only gave the book to those who he had established a Christian relationship with.

Because the book had been published, it was available to anyone who wanted to read it. They created their own hostile environment by citing a book that could have just as well been the Bible.
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You are giving high praise for a book you never read.
 
WCH said:
Not.
Discrimination is action that denies social participation or human rights to categories of people based on prejudice. This includes treatment of an individual or group based on their actual or perceived membership in a certain group or social category, "in a way that is worse than the way people are usually treated".

There's no evidence he ever actually discriminated against anyone or group in his tenor.
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I assume you mean during his tenure :mrgreen: unless he was singing for a living.

But to your point, here is my struggle as well. I would like to see evidence that he was discriminating against gays. If he was, he should be punished for that. Not liking their lifestyle to me doesn't qualify for a reason to fire him if that's what this was all about.
 
Lursa said:
I would have discussed it with the company's HR person, have it on the record.
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I am pretty sure the HR person would have said that there were way too many "mights" and "coulds", and not enough "dids".
 
WCH said:
He quoted scripture in the book.
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Christopher Hitchens quotes scripture in his books, does he deserve the same praise?
 
Cryptic said:
I am pretty sure the HR person would have said that there were way too many "mights" and "coulds", and not enough "dids".
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Yes, those things tend to need to form a pattern when there isnt a direct observation.

And?
 
tres borrachos said:
I assume you mean during his tenure :mrgreen: unless he was singing for a living.

But to your point, here is my struggle as well. I would like to see evidence that he was discriminating against gays. If he was, he should be punished for that. Not liking their lifestyle to me doesn't qualify for a reason to fire him if that's what this was all about.
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tacomancer said:
Christopher Hitchens quotes scripture in his books, does he deserve the same praise?
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I was only comparing sources of angst for sinners not raisng his book to that of the Bible. So you can let it go now .
 
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