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Atlanta Ousts Fire Chief Who Has Antigay Views

Was that demonstrated, or are you just saying that?

It was demonstrated two months ago. His suspension without pay in November of last year was triggered by a number of complaints to the firefighters union, mayor's office, and city council by his subordinates who received the book in the workplace. The union noted that they had fielded a number communications from gay firefighters who were concerned about retaliation or discrimination if they were outed.
 
It was demonstrated two months ago. His suspension without pay in November of last year was triggered by a number of complaints to the firefighters union, mayor's office, and city council by his subordinates who received the book in the workplace.

Quantify that.
 
Those communications are confidential and the exact number has not been publicized.

So we don't really know. We have a "number" but no value and no statistics to prove that performance had been evaluated and had a marked and resolvable drop due to this incident.
 
The mayor has designs on higher office after this term. His Christian constituents will remember this. The fire cheif is a Christian and wrote the book based on his beliefs. He gave copies to those who asked for them. This is the mayor bowing to pressure from a group that represents 3% of the population. Obama claims to be a Christian. This is PC run amuck. Truly disappointing to see how many here think this is a good idea. Someday the idea you can not express may be yours. Think back on this moment then. When you get fired for expressing your belief in AGW (a religion) don't expect sympathy. I don't necessarily agree with the cheif's views, but they are his to hold and did not interfer with his job performance. They did, after all, put out many fires that were... uh... flaming. :lol:
 
Those communications are confidential and the exact number has not been publicized.

So we don't really know. We have a "number" but no value and no statistics to prove that performance had been evaluated and had a marked and resolvable drop due to this incident.

…and, in fact, no usable evidence to support the claim that was made.
 
…and, in fact, no usable evidence to support the claim that was made.

I feel that, particularly, if it is the government doing the punishment, they must demonstrate guilt.
 
Whether or not the termination was wrong or right, why is this a surprise for any Christians to be persecuted or rejected over Christian principals? If the world doesn't hate your message or beliefs then there is something wrong.

As the world gets further into it's own destruction and closer to judgement we will see more persecution, more wickedness, more anti-Christian discrimination, more public acceptance of sin and more open hatred of the truth that the human flesh and sinful nature wants to violently reject.

Matthew 10 New International Version (NIV)

16 “I am sending you out like sheep among wolves. Therefore be as shrewd as snakes and as innocent as doves. 17 Be on your guard; you will be handed over to the local councils and be flogged in the synagogues. 18 On my account you will be brought before governors and kings as witnesses to them and to the Gentiles. 19 But when they arrest you, do not worry about what to say or how to say it. At that time you will be given what to say, 20 for it will not be you speaking, but the Spirit of your Father speaking through you.

21 “Brother will betray brother to death, and a father his child; children will rebel against their parents and have them put to death. 22 You will be hated by everyone because of me, but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved. 23 When you are persecuted in one place, flee to another. Truly I tell you, you will not finish going through the towns of Israel before the Son of Man comes.

24 “The student is not above the teacher, nor a servant above his master. 25 It is enough for students to be like their teachers, and servants like their masters. If the head of the house has been called Beelzebul, how much more the members of his household!

26 “So do not be afraid of them, for there is nothing concealed that will not be disclosed, or hidden that will not be made known. 27 What I tell you in the dark, speak in the daylight; what is whispered in your ear, proclaim from the roofs. 28 Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell. 29 Are not two sparrows sold for a penny? Yet not one of them will fall to the ground outside your Father’s care. 30 And even the very hairs of your head are all numbered. 31 So don’t be afraid; you are worth more than many sparrows.

32 “Whoever acknowledges me before others, I will also acknowledge before my Father in heaven. 33 But whoever disowns me before others, I will disown before my Father in heaven.

34 “Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. 35 For I have come to turn

“‘a man against his father,
a daughter against her mother,
a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law—
36 a man’s enemies will be the members of his own household.’[c]
37 “Anyone who loves their father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; anyone who loves their son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. 38 Whoever does not take up their cross and follow me is not worthy of me. 39 Whoever finds their life will lose it, and whoever loses their life for my sake will find it.

40 “Anyone who welcomes you welcomes me, and anyone who welcomes me welcomes the one who sent me. 41 Whoever welcomes a prophet as a prophet will receive a prophet’s reward, and whoever welcomes a righteous person as a righteous person will receive a righteous person’s reward. 42 And if anyone gives even a cup of cold water to one of these little ones who is my disciple, truly I tell you, that person will certainly not lose their reward.”


God directly says we will be persecuted, jailed, betrayed and hated. It should be no surprise to see this happening now and with more prevalence as the world increasingly rejects truth.
 
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1.) yep you are correct i point out facts all the time
2.) thank you for reposting it and again n no matter how you try to twist by DEFINITION its not a strawman. . .I made a request for people to do . . . .i made no "false argument"
everything you claimed that i said besides my Actual qoute i did not, YOU assumed it and invented it.
nobody honest, educated an objective will ever by what you MADE UP on top of my post lol
YOU dont get to decided what i "really" mean and invent hidden definiton, that the BS you made up in your own head that was NEVER said as proven my qoute.


WOW nothing like totally owning your own post.
thank you for proving i didn't post any strawman.

your post fails, loses and gets destroyed and as always facts win again.
Your false claims are 0 and lifetime against me and facts.

fact remains by definition i made ZERO strawman

also thank you for calling me out totally embarrassing your own false claim, that was awesome! Please continue your lie and make up some more stuff i never said, I can wait i love it!


Yep, exactly right on cue! ;)

I'll let me post stand as it was correct, and you just look foolish as always.

Tim-
 
Yep, exactly right on cue! ;)

I'll let me post stand as it was correct, and you just look foolish as always.

Tim-

translation: you got nothing, thats what i thought.

Good move bailing out i accept your concession
by definition there was zero straman posted by me and you proved it for me
your post fails and facts win again :D
 
I may sometimes seem to split hairs, but I don't do it to be disagreeable. I didn't see you identify the case you cited, but I think the Hatch Act of 1939 and the partisan political advocacy by government employees it meant to restrict form a special, distinct issue that isn't all that relevant here. Cases on sexual harassment in the workplace are more relevant to this one, but even there, the issue of First Amendment rights is not settled in the courts. Eugene Volokh has a very good summary of these cases online, at least as they stood when he wrote it.

The Supreme Court made a suggestive comment about offensive gender-related speech at work in R.A.V. v. Minneapolis, a First Amendment "fighting words" decision, but it was only dicta. The Court's decision in Lane last year, which I mentioned above, does not deal with either gender-related speech or speech like that in this case, but it's interesting because the Court strongly and unanimously favored First Amendment protection in the government workplace. Whether that shows how a court would probably call this case is not clear.

The case was in the heading of the link I provided in the second section of the page.

I know your motivation is cool, I just don't see free speech and freedom of religion as separate categories in this scenarios, especially when it could be seen as religious speech.
 
right, just as handing out atheist pamphlets promotes a viewpoint on religion. so any atheist would have to be fired for doing such a thing. right?

Do atheists have a pamphlet? I didn't think they were that organized.
 
I don't think you know what you are talking about because this post is incoherent.
I could careless what the mayor said he is trying to justify his illegal actions.

yes he was fired for that. there is no record anywhere that he ever discriminated against anyone not only with his job as fire chief but when he worked for the President of
the US.

so the only reason that he was fired was for writing a bible study book for his church group outside of work and someone didn't like what it said.

Your dodging is duly noted.
 
Your dodging is duly noted.

IE I can't disprove what you say so I will just pretend you didn't do anything is a lousy comment to make.
I didn't dodge anything maybe if you had written a coherent that someone could actually read and understand it would be different.

however your religious bigotry is duly noted.
 
I feel that, particularly, if it is the government doing the punishment, they must demonstrate guilt.

they have no evidence of guilt. that is why they are in major legal trouble.
 
IE I can't disprove what you say so I will just pretend you didn't do anything is a lousy comment to make.
I didn't dodge anything maybe if you had written a coherent that someone could actually read and understand it would be different.

however your religious bigotry is duly noted.

You continue to make statements as being factual while being unable to validate what you've stated. You have done that a number of times with several posters on this tread including me. Being able and willing to validate statements you claim are factual is necessary if you expect people to respect you. It's called credibility and you've lost it.

I'm through with you. You have nothing of value to say to anyone.
 
You continue to make statements as being factual while being unable to validate what you've stated. You have done that a number of times with several posters on this tread including me. Being able and willing to validate statements you claim are factual is necessary if you expect people to respect you. It's called credibility and you've lost it.

I'm through with you. You have nothing of value to say to anyone.

you would be wrong. I have validated every one of my statements an backed them up with actual news articles.

the fact is this person was fired over his religious beliefs that evidently were not affecting his job.
LOL you speak of credibility you have posted nothing to contradict anything that I said.

you might want to take your own advice. so far you have said nothing of any consequence.


Fact: he wrote a book with permission from the ethics department.
Fact: the book he wrote was for a bible study group at his church.
Fact: he past the book out to friends of his at work with who he has a personal relationship with.
Fact: someone else took the book (without permission more than likely) to the only gay council member there.
Fact: The passage that he is quoting is from a chapter where the bible deals with sexual morality.
Fact: he has never been accused or convict of discrimination from when he first served as Fire Chief to When he worked for Obama
to this last time he was elected as fire Chief.
Fact: the mayor admits that he was fired over the book.
Fact: He was fired for expressing his religious beliefs which are protected not only by the constitution but by state law as well.

So it is now up to you to prove that he in his position has ever discriminated against gay people or anyone else. I will be waiting for your evidence.
 
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Jeez, I think I'm getting the flu and the last thing I need to do or want to do is read through city and state statutes and handbooks. At this point I can say that Fairfax County does have a policy prohibiting harassment and discrimination in the workplace based on sexual orientation and religion among other things. Fairfax County even specifically addresses discrimination by supervisors. Good for Fairfax County.

The City of Fairfax web site provides little to no information that I can find regarding its employees other than for people searching for employment with the city.

The Commonwealth of Virginia states the following in its department of human resources site (I'm not plowing through state statutes):

Your original busted statement:

No religion in the workplace. None. Not yours, not mine, not anyone's. NONE. Problem solved. I would assume that that is the policy relating to employees for the City of Atlanta.

So now show me the "No religion in the workplace. None." policy because that is what you need to prove your original assertion.
 
Your original busted statement:



So now show me the "No religion in the workplace. None." policy because that is what you need to prove your original assertion.

the SCOTUS would disagree with him in a huge way as well.
 
Your original busted statement:



So now show me the "No religion in the workplace. None." policy because that is what you need to prove your original assertion.

My statement was in the context of the OP. I stand by that. My prior post and a few posts following put the above in context. You may have misunderstood.

Cochran cannot express his religious beliefs at work. He certainly cannot do that as a supervisor. The law does not prevent him from being a Christian who works for the City of Atlanta, but he may not practice or expose his Christian beliefs in the workplace. There is a difference and distinction.

The same holds true for the Commonwealth of Virginia. In fact Virginia to my thinking was quite clear in its description of workplace harassment, which included sexual orientation and religion.

In essence religion stays at the door when you go to work for a government entity. No religion in the workplace. If you want to quietly pray in your office who is to know? If during lunch I want to shut my door and meditate without chanting, who is to know? Once it is a public expression of religious views a line is crossed, especially as a supervisor. Read the law and policies. Talk to your HR people be specific and ask them to be specific in their response to you.

I'm not playing gotcha, I am stating fact and I took the trouble and time to source my response.
 
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.
Fact: He was fired for expressing his religious beliefs which are protected not only by the constitution but by state law as well.

100% lie and not as fact as the countless articles prove :shrug:
 
Liberal deception is frustrating. They take a stance on an issue and then claim their intentions are pure. This guy got fired for being a Christian plain and simple. The same people who will claim otherwise seem to have no problem with Muslims who treat gays and women much more harshly. Point out someone who kills in the name of Islam and they will argue it wasn't for religious reasons, and in some cases even blame the victims or a third party. Evidently Muslims are free to express their views, even violently, without recourse. But not Christians. The sad part is that they can not even be honest with themselves.
 
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/07/us/atlanta-ousts-fire-chief-who-has-antigay-views.html?_r=0

ATLANTA — Mayor Kasim Reed announced Tuesday that he had fired the chief of the city’s Fire Rescue Department, Kelvin Cochran, after Mr. Cochran gave workers a religious book he wrote containing passages that condemn homosexuality.

Mr. Reed had suspended Mr. Cochran for a month without pay in November, opening an investigation into whether Mr. Cochran’s authorship and distribution of the book to workers violated the city’s nondiscrimination policies. That move sparked a debate about religious liberty and freedom of expression: Last month, the 1.4-million member Georgia Baptist Convention began an online petition that called for Mr. Cochran’s reinstatement and suggested his First Amendment rights had been violated.

The matter also presents a challenge for Mr. Reed, a second-term Democrat who presides over a metropolis whose social mosaic is defined by strong expressions of Christianity and large and politically powerful gay, lesbian, transgender and bisexual groups.

snip...

Homosexual Agenda strikes again

Is the agenda to be fabulous?
 
100% lie and not as fact as the countless articles prove :shrug:

look it up religious discrimination is against the law. if it isn't prove it.
 
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