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Atlanta Ousts Fire Chief Who Has Antigay Views

Re: Atlanta Fire Chief: I was fired because of my Christian faith

Great job of spinning, this is about WAY more than simply "his Christian faith."
 
Re: Atlanta Fire Chief: I was fired because of my Christian faith

If there was a fire chief who was a homosexual pervert, would you agree that having such a leader would similarly impose a hostile environment on any underlings who happened to adhere to any kind of moral standards, to the degree that their discomfort would constitute a legitimate reason for firing that leader?

If a fire chief who is a homosexual hits on his subordinates or continuously talks about his sex life then yes it would be inapropriate.

Your point does make me start to think about if the violation rose to the level of fireing though. I hadnt considered that before and I dont think it does, in my opinion.
 
Re: Atlanta Fire Chief: I was fired because of my Christian faith

Harassing his subordinates out of work makes it worse.
 
Re: Atlanta Fire Chief: I was fired because of my Christian faith

Can you show me where it says that he was handing out these books to subordinates while they were at work?

I cant that is why I am saying if as opposed to just stating he did it. If he didnt do it then he did nothing wrong.
 
Re: Atlanta Fire Chief: I was fired because of my Christian faith

Nothing wrong with what he said, Homosexuality is an evil perversion , on the same level as the others that he also mentioned. And whether you agree with this or not, he has as much right to say so as the sickest of perverts have to say otherwise.

So if this is the case. Would you be okay with your local Police Department commissioner saying the same hate-filled rhetoric? The only exception to the Atlanta Fire Chief is that the Commissioner is a devout Muslim? Does the Muslim Police Commissioner have the same rights as the Christian Fire Chief?
 
Re: Atlanta Fire Chief: I was fired because of my Christian faith

I cant that is why I am saying if as opposed to just stating he did it. If he didnt do it then he did nothing wrong.

I've read a few links on this story and I think the termination of him was way out of line. I don't agree with anything he said or thinks, as I'm pro-gay rights and not the least bit religious personally, but I am failing to see where this is a fireable offense. I have subordinates who I happen to know voted as I did in the last elections (I never ask, they bring it up with me). I would without hesitation share a cartoon or funny slogan or even an attack article with them during the election cycle. It seems that I could get fired for doing that even though they engaged me and I know for a fact that they shared my beliefs. I'm just a little less inclined to scream for and applaud someone's livelihood getting taken away from them this readily. JMO.
 
Re: Atlanta Fire Chief: I was fired because of my Christian faith

If a fire chief who is a homosexual hits on his subordinates or continuously talks about his sex life then yes it would be inapropriate [sic].

Your point does make me start to think about if the violation rose to the level of fireing [sic] though. I hadnt [sic] considered that before and I dont [sic] think it does, in my opinion.

The claim to which I was responding is that for evil perverts to work under a leader who they know holds to decent moral standards would create a hostile environment for the perverts, and that their discomfort with such a leader is an excuse to fire that leader.

If this is a valid argument, then I was asking if the converse would be true. Decent people with good moral standards, having to work under a leader that they know is a sick pervert; should their potential discomfort with such a situation be an equally valid reason to fire that leader?
 
How can an inanimate object act in a human way? It can't. It can offer a discriminatory point of view, or carry a discriminatory message, but it can't discriminate itself.

Your support would then be just as strong if Cochran had written a book on how to seduce 18 year old girls for fun? What if he had written a book about the joys of swinging and had handed the books out to female staff? You see where I am going.

I'm not sure what the abuse of authority was. Maybe we have different definitions of that. To me it's using your power to take advantage of someone or abuse someone. Did the handful of people he gave that book to say he abused them?

People who in some form or fashion represent a minority know all too well that power and authority can be used to abuse them. It is why they often don't feel comfortable reporting it or complaining or rocking the boat. As a white, straight, non-Christian, male who has been in a position of authority over supervisors and their employees I have seen and heard at levels and from people in positions that stunned me in a few instances.

Just because someone is a Christian or a Hindu or a Buddhist do not make the mistake of assuming that that person would not abuse their authority over others who are do not hold the same religious beliefs.

If I write a book on animal rights, and it gets published, and I send a free copy to the people who work for me, am I abusing my power?

I don't know that nations go to war, that millions of people throughout history harm or kill or murder over animal rights.
 
Re: Atlanta Fire Chief: I was fired because of my Christian faith

So if this is the case. Would you be okay with your local Police Department commissioner saying the same hate-filled rhetoric? The only exception to the Atlanta Fire Chief is that the Commissioner is a devout Muslim? Does the Muslim Police Commissioner have the same rights as the Christian Fire Chief?

“Truth is ‘hate’ to those who hate the truth.”

Everyone has the same rights to hold whatever beliefs and opinions they will, and to appropriately express these beliefs.

It's funny how those of you on the far wrong, used to portray yourselves as the greatest champions of free speech, when the “free speech” in question consisted of obscenity, pornography, and other degrading, harmful speech; but when someone wants to express genuine opinions, in support of decent moral standards, your reaction is to call him “hateful” and call for him to be censored.
 
"your boss can fire you at any time"
True, as most states in the nation have an 'at will' employment policy. You work there at your will, and at the boss' will. Either can terminate employment at a moment's notice. It's not related to constitutional rights, as far as I understand.

Government jobs are a little different. Dismissing people there may raise constitutional issues--in particular, procedural due process under the Fifth and Fourteenth Amendments. The First Amendment freedoms of speech and religion may also be involved. The notion that the Establishment Clause was meant to prevent a local government official from bringing some pamphlets from his church to work, for anyone who was interested, because one sentence in the pamphlet mildly expressed the church's disapproval of buggery, is laughable. THAT constitutes impermissible promotion of a religious view by the state? Give me a G-- damned break. The Constitution does not require everyone to walk on eggshells. What's next--firing a cop for telling a blonde joke in the station house because blonde dispatcher Susie happened to overhear it, and being a delicate little flower, felt all icky and broke into tears?
 
Re: Atlanta Fire Chief: I was fired because of my Christian faith

So you would be ok with a state employee handing out anti-Christian books to his employees? I bet not...

Just as you would be ok with radical Islam handing out Islamic garbage.
 
[Homosexual Agenda strikes again

Nope. Common sense and decency WINS again.

He is a fire fighter. Shut up with religion and hate speech and put out a fire. ****ing asshole. (the chief)
 
Government jobs are a little different. Dismissing people there may raise constitutional issues--in particular, procedural due process under the Fifth and Fourteenth Amendments. The First Amendment freedoms of speech and religion may also be involved. The notion that the Establishment Clause was meant to prevent a local government official from bringing some pamphlets from his church to work, for anyone who was interested, because one sentence in the pamphlet mildly expressed the church's disapproval of buggery, is laughable. THAT constitutes impermissible promotion of a religious view by the state? Give me a G-- damned break. The Constitution does not require everyone to walk on eggshells. What's next--firing a cop for telling a blonde joke in the station house because blonde dispatcher Susie happened to overhear it, and being a delicate little flower, felt all icky and broke into tears?

One of the most bizarre creations of this nation's political wrong wing is the idea that the First Amendment allows, and even requires, the exact sort of suppression and censorship of religious beliefs that it was specifically intended to prohibit.
 
Re: Atlanta Fire Chief: I was fired because of my Christian faith

The claim to which I was responding is that for evil perverts to work under a leader who they know holds to decent moral standards would create a hostile environment for the perverts, and that their discomfort with such a leader is an excuse to fire that leader.

If this is a valid argument, then I was asking if the converse would be true. Decent people with good moral standards, having to work under a leader that they know is a sick pervert; should their potential discomfort with such a situation be an equally valid reason to fire that leader?

Restating the question trying to get a rise out of me because you called sick pervert doesnt change my answer. The existance of differeing views does not cause the hostile work enviroment; it is the stateing of those views by a supervisor that does. I would also say that the supervisor handing out literature saying why Christianity is wrong about homosexuality would be inapropriate as well.
 
One of the most bizarre creations of this nation's political wrong wing is the idea that the First Amendment allows, and even requires, the exact sort of suppression and censorship of religious beliefs that it was specifically intended to prohibit.

Except that did not happen, his beliefs are not censored. The book is still around and so is his ability to write / speak more about it. He willingly signed an agreement with the city and it looks like he broke the agreement.
 
Re: Atlanta Fire Chief: I was fired because of my Christian faith

I've read a few links on this story and I think the termination of him was way out of line. I don't agree with anything he said or thinks, as I'm pro-gay rights and not the least bit religious personally, but I am failing to see where this is a fireable offense. I have subordinates who I happen to know voted as I did in the last elections (I never ask, they bring it up with me). I would without hesitation share a cartoon or funny slogan or even an attack article with them during the election cycle. It seems that I could get fired for doing that even though they engaged me and I know for a fact that they shared my beliefs. I'm just a little less inclined to scream for and applaud someone's livelihood getting taken away from them this readily. JMO.

Anti-political lean is not analogous to anti-sexual orientation. Sorry.
 
One of the most bizarre creations of this nation's political wrong wing is the idea that the First Amendment allows, and even requires, the exact sort of suppression and censorship of religious beliefs that it was specifically intended to prohibit.

An employer can give such stipulations if it wants and failure to adhere to said policies will get you fired... if a person does not like that they are free to get a job at a Hate Organization.
 
Re: Atlanta Fire Chief: I was fired because of my Christian faith

“Truth is ‘hate’ to those who hate the truth.”

"Do not judge, or you too will be judged."

Everyone has the same rights to hold whatever beliefs and opinions they will, and to appropriately express these beliefs.

You avoided the question. Do you believe the Muslim Police Commissioner has the same right to spread his hate speech among his employees as the Christian Fire Chief?

It's funny how those of you on the far wrong, used to portray yourselves as the greatest champions of free speech, when the “free speech” in question consisted of obscenity, pornography, and other degrading, harmful speech; but when someone wants to express genuine opinions, in support of decent moral standards, your reaction is to call him “hateful” and call for him to be censored.

It's funny how you can't argue against my position and resort to building yourself a sturdy straw man to beat up on. What the Police Chief did was spread hate speech through his work place through a book he wrote. (A book he allegedly handed out to coworkers.) You can cry "Free speech" all you like but don't be surprised that this book and its author has gotten the backlash it has gotten from the rest of the country. If he wants to spread his hate filled rantings about homosexuals he can do so without using his rank and status to push his Religious Dogma, and now thanks to his termination he can do that.

But while we're at it, I am very much interested in how you broad stroke the entire LGBT community as evil and vile. Do Gay Firemen and women go to hell for simply being gay, or do they get a free pass because they are willing to put their asses on the line to save people regardless of their skin, creed, religious belieffs, etc?
 
Re: Atlanta Fire Chief: I was fired because of my Christian faith

Just as you would be ok with radical Islam handing out Islamic garbage.

Actually I am against it no matter the politics or religion espoused. Consistency NP, it is something you should try.
 
Re: Atlanta Fire Chief: I was fired because of my Christian faith

based on the information within the linked cite, this appears to be an obvious instance of termination without justifiable cause
that he is/was the fire chief does not deprive him of the right to free speech
i do not agree with much of what he wrote, but he is entitled to say/print/publish/sing his personal views, no matter that those views might depart from mainstream beliefs
what did he do in his professional capacity which deserved termination?
nothing that i have read would rise to that level
and if he did not commit a terminal offense then he should not be canned


did y'all know that Obama's book, the audacity of hope was inspired by one of rev jeremiah wright's sermons? but rev wright also spoke this to his congregation, the one that included Obama:
We bombed Hiroshima, we bombed Nagasaki, and we nuked far more than the thousands in New York and the Pentagon, and we never batted an eye... and now we are indignant, because the stuff we have done overseas is now brought back into our own front yards. America's chickens are coming home to roost.
Violence begets violence. Hatred begets hatred. And terrorism begets terrorism. A white ambassador said that, y'all. Not a black militant. Not a reverend who preaches about racism. An ambassador whose eyes are wide open and who is trying to get us to wake up and move away from this dangerous precipice upon which we are now poised. The ambassador said the people that we have wounded don't have the military capability we have. But they do have individuals who are willing to die and take thousands with them. And we need to come to grips with that.
while i agree with wright in that regard, there were many who were incensed that Obama allowed himself to be subjected to such sermons
and he then cowardly distanced himself from the minister who married him and baptised his children
now, how many of you who believe the fire chief deserved to be fired for his (wrongheaded) views believe it was OK for Obama to remain present when such (legitimate) pronouncements by his pastor were being freely preached?

free speech is precious
we should not be firing people because they engage in free speech
 
There is no constitutional right to discriminate.

That would be freedom of association, very strongly implied in the First Amendment, right along with the explicitly-affirmed freedoms of speech, the press, and religion.

In any event, expressing opinions that certain blatantly immoral and perverted practices are immoral and perverted does not constitute discrimination. Discrimination would only apply if it could be shown that as a supervisor, he treated underlings more or less favorably on the basis of criteria that did not justify such treatment. Expressing an opinion doesn't meet this definition.
 
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