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Thread: Atlanta Ousts Fire Chief Who Has Antigay Views

  1. #81
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    Re: Atlanta Ousts Fire Chief Who Has Antigay Views

    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Of course there is. Almost nothing in the Constitution prohibits private persons from discriminating against anyone, for any reason. A member of the Ku Klux Klan, for example, has a perfect right to hate the guts of every black or Jew on earth, wish them all dead, and tell his feelings to anyone who will listen. Nor can any law require him to date one of those persons, or invite them to his dinner parties. Despite what some people who never learned basic civics might want to believe, there is no "Rainbows and Unicorns" clause in the Constitution. If that mean fact gives some collectivist dim bulbs in this country a big owie and makes them feel all icky, that's just too damned bad. Individual liberty includes the right to detest and condemn certain people and actions, and to say so.

    Unless this fire chief was somehow coercing employees to accept his booklets, I don't see how what he did amounted to unconstitutional state endorsement of a particular religious belief. Nothing says any American has to approve of homosexual behavior. Many millions of people consider it immoral and unacceptable, often on religious grounds. It sounds to me like the local homosexuals screeched loudly and angrily enough to intimidate this mayor into knuckling under to them. Wait until organizations that support incest, or polygamy, or bestiality are shrieking and calling for some official's head because he dared to bruise their precious feelings by calling their sexual practices immoral. A free country is not for the thin-skinned.
    He was at a workplace and participated in activity that is not allowed by the employer. He's not getting jailed, he's getting fired.
    “Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone.” John Maynard Keynes

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    Re: Atlanta Ousts Fire Chief Who Has Antigay Views

    Our economy will be in a serious fix if we don't allow employers to fire employees who bring discredit to their organizations. Whether he should or should not be fired is a question of whether or not he brought discredit to the fire department. If he did then off with his head! People should not be fired for political or religious opinions. This guy was fired for embarrassing the city government. Nothing wrong with that.

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    Re: Atlanta Ousts Fire Chief Who Has Antigay Views

    Quote Originally Posted by blaxshep View Post
    I should have clarified: The workplace has no constitutional rights. If you can't keep your discriminatory comments to yourself your boss can fire you at any time. A member of the KKK can hate anyone he wants, true, but the minute he passes out a pamphlet at work he can be fired. The chief represents the government to his subordinates and has no right or moral ground to spew his religious non-sense on anyone under his authority.
    That's not accurate. Firemen do not waive their constitutional freedoms of speech or religion when they arrive at work, any more than teachers do. And government employees usually cannot be fired as easily as private ones. I'm sure instructors at state and community colleges all over the U.S. regularly express views at work that many people would find repugnant. Apparently the state of Colorado did not violate anyone's constitutional rights by employing a professor at Boulder who, right after 9/11, disgustingly implied that the poor souls murdered at the World Trade Center deserved just what they got. He called them "little Eichmanns," comparing them to the Nazi war criminal.

    What anyone thinks of the fire chief's morality or religious beliefs makes no difference. The issue is whether he, acting in effect as the state, coerced any person into endorsing the views contained in the booklets so far as to violate any right the Constitution guarantees, through the Fourteenth Amendment, against state infringement. I don't see where the booklet called for discrimination against homosexuals. It just expressed the religious view that homosexual acts are vulgar and undesirable. Millions of Americans believe the same.

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    Re: Atlanta Ousts Fire Chief Who Has Antigay Views

    Quote Originally Posted by iliveonramen View Post
    He was at a workplace and participated in activity that is not allowed by the employer. He's not getting jailed, he's getting fired.
    That begs the question whether the rule his employer relied on in terminating him violated any right guaranteed by the Constitution. Do you think, for example, that state governments, and through them the governments of their municipalities, could prohibit employees from, say, engaging in silent prayer in their break room? Could a government employee who was a Black Muslim be fired for commenting loudly to someone at work that "I think we should get rid of every last damn Jew in this country"?

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    Atlanta Fire Chief: I was fired because of my Christian faith

    This is outrageous and another affront to Christianity. So very sad.


    Atlanta Fire Chief: I was fired because of my Christian faith | Fox News
    "God Bless Our Troops in Harms Way."

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    Re: Atlanta Fire Chief: I was fired because of my Christian faith

    If he hasnt shown any sign of discrimination in his leadership, he shouldnt have been fired over what he wrote in the book. I see it as more a Freedom of Speech issue then a Freedom of Religion issue though.

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    Re: Atlanta Fire Chief: I was fired because of my Christian faith

    "Every time something really bad happens, people cry out for safety, and the government answers by taking rights away from good people." - Penn Jillette.

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    Re: Atlanta Fire Chief: I was fired because of my Christian faith

    I agree it is sad. He did go out of his way to get approval to have his title associated with the book before it was published. I think he should sue.

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    Re: Atlanta Fire Chief: I was fired because of my Christian faith

    Fox News once again spins the story to fit their agenda of victimization. Not only did the Fire Chief in question hand this book out to his employees, the book itself equated homosexuality to pederasty and bestiality. Are you okay with a public official publishing and handing out a book with clear hateful remarks about a group of people? Either way, I won't lose any sleep over this guy.

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    Re: Atlanta Fire Chief: I was fired because of my Christian faith

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    This is outrageous and another affront to Christianity. So very sad.


    Atlanta Fire Chief: I was fired because of my Christian faith | Fox News
    Problem is, NP, that he wrote (according to your reference):

    “Uncleanness – whatever is opposite of purity; including sodomy, homosexuality, lesbianism, pederasty, bestiality, all other forms of sexual perversion.”

    “Naked men refuse to give in, so they pursue sexual fulfillment through multiple partners, with the opposite sex, the same sex, and sex outside of marriage and many other vile, vulgar and inappropriate ways which defile their body – temple and dishonor God.”


    So this means that if there's an LGBT firefighter working underneath him, that firefighter would know that his boss thinks that he or she - as an LGBT - is right down there with pederasty, bestiality, et al. And you would know down deep in your gut what that means for your chances for advancement.

    What's more, when the leader has that attitude, it trickles down the the chain and affects the whole supervisory chain. As a Navy veteran, you should know this instinctively from how a crew's performance and attitude changes when a new captain takes command of the ship.

    So...yeah. The guy had to be fired. If he wasn't aware enough of how his words and actions can affect his people, and how this can affect their job performance, then the guy had to go. It wasn't a PC thing - it was a LEADERSHIP thing.
    “To do evil, a human being must first of all believe that what he’s doing is good" - Solzhenitsyn

    "...with the terrorists, you have to take out their families." - Donald Trump

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